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CONLANG  August 2017, Week 2

CONLANG August 2017, Week 2

Subject:

Re: 4th person

From:

PETER BLEACKLEY <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 13 Aug 2017 15:18:39 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (124 lines)

It's sometimes used to refer to obviates in proximate/obviate systems.

------ Original Message ------
On  Sunday, 13 Aug, 2017 at 01:45, Virginia Keys<[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

So does 4th person refer to anything specifically, or is it just a label 
for a pronoun class that doesn't fall under 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?


On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:30:14 -0500, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

> In Saweli-Saxita (and Latejami), the fourth person is a combination of 
> 1st
> and 2nd. 5th is 1st + 3rd, 6th is 2nd + 3rd, and 7th is 1st + 2nd + 
> 3rd.
> It's all very binary.
>
> stevo
>
> 
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-3176-a?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=oa-3176-a>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <https://www.avast.com/en-us/lp-safe-emailing-3176-a?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=oa-3176-a>
> <#m_851172054455754723_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:20 PM, A Walker Scott 
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> Lrahran's fourth person pronouns are used for impersonal referents, 
>> like
>> you (or him or her...or even me!) as the representative of a larger 
>> entity.
>> Typically it is used when addressing the representative of a guilty
>> organization whose individual representative shares no part of the 
>> blame,
>> and other similar types of situations where one wushes to 
>> differentiate
>> between the person being addressed and the larger group the 
>> individual is a
>> part of.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 17, 2017, Jyri Lehtinen <[log in to unmask]> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have both reflexive and non-reflexive 3rd person possessive 
>>> suffixes
>> for
>>> Kišta which are used both in possessive constructions and in 
>>> conjugating
>>> dependent verb forms, e.g.
>>>
>>> girl bread-ACC-3.REFL.POSS eat
>>> "The girl ate her bread", reflexive possession
>>>
>>> girl (boy) bread-ACC-3SG.POSS eat
>>> "The girl ate the boy's bread. / The girl ate his_j bread." 
>>> non-reflexive
>>> possession
>>>
>>> I've occasionally thought to label these as 3rd and 4th person 
>>> possessive
>>> suffixes but I'm now confident that calling these reflexive and
>>> non-reflexive possessive suffixes is much clearer and to the point.
>>>
>>>    -Jyri
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-07-18 0:48 GMT+02:00 C. Brickner <[log in to unmask]
>>> <javascript:;>>:
>>>
>>>> Thank you very much; it's a start. I dread having to go back 
>>>> through
>> all
>>>> my translations and revising them.
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
>>>> Sent: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:29:32 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> Subject: Re: 4th person
>>>>
>>>> On 17 July 2017 at 13:27, C. Brickner <[log in to unmask]
>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>> If any of you use 4th person pronouns in your conlangs, please
>> explain
>>>> to me how you use them.
>>>>
>>>> Valaklwuuxa has very few free pronouns, but it recognizes a fourth
>>>> person in verb agreement and oblique pronouns. The 3rd person in
>>>> Valaklwuuxa is typically used for proximate objects (i.e., things 
>>>> you
>>>> can point to or interact with) and people who are part of the
>>>> discourse, even if they are not currently being addressed (which 
>>>> would
>>>> make them 2nd person), but it  can also be used for highly topical
>>>> things even if they are not actually proximate. The fourth person 
>>>> then
>>>> covers everything else that the English 3rd person usually would-
>>>> people who are excluded from the discourse, things that are distal
>>>> (out of sight, inaccessible), and things that have very low 
>>>> topicality
>>>> / discourse relevance. It also interacts with the animacy 
>>>> hierarchy,
>>>> such that if you have a direct-voice verb marked for 3p+4p, it is
>>>> assumed that the 3rd person referent is something more topical, 
>>>> acting
>>>> on some other less important thing, while a 3p+3p conjugation 
>>>> leaves
>>>> the door open for more ambiguity since both arguments are selected
>>>> from the same set of topical/proximal referents in the discourse.
>>>>
>>>> -l.
>>>>
>>>
>>

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