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CONLANG  August 2017, Week 4

CONLANG August 2017, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Brittonic subject suffixes, was: 4th person

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 22 Aug 2017 19:44:39 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (49 lines)

On 22/08/2017 17:58, Alex Fink wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:12:39 +0100, Raymond Brown 
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> The thing with these languages and IIRC the Gaelic languages is the
>> habit of using the subject pronouns immediately after the verb 
>> virtually as affixes; this sometime affected the endings.
>> 
>> FIRST PERSON The singular ended in -m in early Brittonic which 
>> softened (lenited) to -ṽ (still written -m in early Welsh.  Welsh 
>> and Cornish simply denasalized [ṽ] to to [v], spelled _f_ in
>> Welsh, whereas in Breton the nasal prevailed and [v] was lost hence
>> [jaṽ] -> [jan].
> 
> I knew _f_ was a spelling of /v/ which could arise from lenition of 
> /m/.  The step of this process that seems noteworthy to me is not
> any of that but [m] > [n].  How did that happen?  Not a sound change,
> if the Breton first plural still ends in /-m/.

So did earlier Welsh.  In neither languaga did the sound soften to [v]
in the 1st plural.  This surely indicates an earlier /mm/, perhaps
assimilation from /ms/ <- /mes/ or /mos/??

> Not interaction with a pronoun, unless there was a first singular
> pronoun starting in a dental...

The 1st singular pronoun in Breton is _me_ so, as you write, it would
not account for the final /n/.  Apart from my suggestion [ṽ] -> [n], I
have no other explanation to suggest.  I don't know and, sadly, I don't
have material to hand from which to check.

> On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:46:44 +0100, Raymond Brown wrote:
> 
>>>> I'm put in mind of the Tocharian person endings, which are also
>>>> puzzling; maybe Brittonic could illuminate the sorts of 
>>>> processes to look at.
>> 
>> I meant to add "I doubt it" before the snip.  :)
> 
> The sort of thing I meant is: the short answer for why Brittonic did 
> this is interaction with following subject pronouns.  So did 
> Tocharian of some phase have VS word order with pronominal subjects? 
> (No time to attempt to look that up now.)  If so we've got a 
> candidate explanation which to me seems better than the current one.

Oh, I see.  Alas, I know far less about Tocharian.  :(

Ray

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