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CONLANG  September 2017, Week 1

CONLANG September 2017, Week 1

Subject:

Re: (How) Do You Distinguish Proper Inclusion vs. Equation?

From:

Vitaly Osipov <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 5 Sep 2017 20:12:20 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (50 lines)

IMHO it’s more of a word order in Russian. “Он доктор” (usually “он -
доктор” in writing) means he is a doctor, included in a profession.
“Доктор - он” is “the doctor [you’re looking for] is him”, equation.

Other than that, it depends on context, as in all, I think, languages
that don’t use articles. If a object (a/the doctor) has not been
mentioned in the context, “он доктор” means “he is a doctor”,
otherwise it’s “he is the doctor”. Using word order or something like
"Он (э)тот доктор.” ("he is this/that doctor [we are/were recently
talking about…]") sounds more natural to me, though.

I guess in translations of “Doctor Who” they say “он - ДОКТОР”, with
intonation similar to the one they use in “he is THE Doctor”.

PS disclaimer - not a linguist.



Regards,
Vitaly


On 5 September 2017 at 09:57, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 4 September 2017 at 00:09, Kaleissin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On 2017-09-02 18:26, Logan Kearsley wrote:
>>> "He is a doctor." (Proper Inclusion- he is a member of the category of
>>> "doctors".)
>>>
>>> "He is the doctor." (Equation- he and the doctor are the same person.)
>>
>> How does Russian do this? Taruven has a member-of-set affix (naturally)
>> but I haven't really worked out how it comes together.
>
> In the absence of one our native Russian speakers jumping in yet...
> As I said in response to Ray, Russian just doesn't seem to care. "Он
> доктор." can mean either one- he is a member of the category of
> doctors, or he is the same person as the doctor. Which it is must be
> determined by what's relevant in context.
>
> In this particular case, there are other constructions you can use to
> clarify that you are specifically referring to the person's
> profession, as opposed to expressing equation, but nothing (that I
> know of) that will work in all situations to force the category
> inclusion interpretation. You could say "Он (э)тот доктор." to force
> an equational interpretation, but that feels highly pragmatically
> marked to my non-native intuition. You *could* do it, but you normally
> *wouldn't*.
>
> -l.

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