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CONLANG  September 2017, Week 3

CONLANG September 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: another metathesis Q

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 17 Sep 2017 17:18:23 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (103 lines)

On 15/09/2017 17:05, David McCann wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:30:39 -0400 J S Jones wrote:
> 
>> I'm trying out a set of sound changes, including 
>> obstruent-semivowel metathesis, which I'd like opinions on (I 
>> didn't find this particular question in the archives).
>> 
>> The change in question is when an obstruent is immediately followed
>> by a semivowel they trade places, e.g. Atju > Ajtu.
> 
> That seems a bit unusual to me,

It seems quite fine to me; it's not at all unknown in natlangs.  It's
what I call _glide metathesis_ as opposed to the sort of metathesis we
see, e.g. in dialect _wops/ waps_ = 'wasp' and _ax_ = 'ask'.  See Notes
4. on:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/BART/consonants.html

> although obviously not impossible. Greek had metathesis for -ny- and
>  -ry- (phaino < *phanyo) but the coronal and dorsal obstruents 
> palatalised and -py- > pt.

Yes, it affects liquids, including -my- (baino < *gwamyo (cognate with
our verb 'come'), the nasal changing -m- > -ɲ- > -n-.

> Romance languages palatalised -Cy- or turned the -y- into an 
> obstruent (Fr rage < rabie).

Old French palatalization is far more complex and does have examples the
'metathesis' that Jeff is asking about, e.g
maison < masione (= Classical _mansionem_)
poison < potione(m)
voiz (modern _voix_) < /vokje/ (= Classical _voce(m))

Note _oi_ and _ai_ were true falling diphthongs in Old French.

> Only Portuguese and Rumanian show metathesis for -by- (Pt raiva < 
> rabie),

Not so - it is found also in Romanian, e.g. _roib_ < Vulgar Latin
/rʊbjʊ/ (= Classical _rubeum_ ; _aiba_ < habea(t)

Also besides _sage_ < _sapiu(m)_, we find the dialect form _saive_ in
older French.

> although not for -py-!.

Spanish _sepa_ < *saipa < *sapʲa < *sapja (= Classical _sapiat_).

I discuss the palatalization of labials in Romance in sub-section 3.2.8
of the webpage noted above.  Indeed, Jeff may be interested in the whole
of section 3.2

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 15/09/2017 23:12, Guilherme Holzmann dos Santos wrote:
> Portuguese does show metathesis for py though:
> 
> Lat. sapiat -> Pt. saiba

Indeed it does.

> That also possibly happened intermediary to Spanish _sepa_.

Yep - see above.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 16/09/2017 20:40, J S Jones wrote:
> I'm hoping for an ANADEW since I need the ablaut pattern that
> results from the monophthongisation of vowel + semivowel.
> 

Perfectly reasonable development IMHO.
In Welsh we find, e.g.
   S.                    PL.
bardd ("poet, bard")  beirdd < * bardī
where a diphthong remains, but -

corff ('body')        cyrff < *corpī
where monophthongization has occured.  :)

Both Welsh _cyrff_ and Spanish _sepa_ give you your ANADEW.  I'm sure I
could give more examples if I had time to look them out.

Also interestingly you eill notice that the Classical Latin 3rd neuter
_corpus_ became 2nd decl. masc. in Vulgat Latin. :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 17/09/2017 16:16, David McCann wrote:> On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 15:00:48
-0500 Aidan Aannestad  wrote:
> 
>> It looks to me almost like the /j/ becomes palatalisation on the 
>> previous consonant, and then the palatalisation starts affecting 
>> the previous vowel rather than the next.
>> 
> I think that's it exactly. The listener spots the palatalisation but
>  "misplaces"

Yep - glide metathesis as I wrote above.

Ray

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