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CONLANG  September 2017, Week 3

CONLANG September 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Reform of pinyin

From:

"Mike S." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 17 Sep 2017 19:53:21 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (90 lines)

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Victor Chan <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> I had now studied the phonology of Standard Mandarin and pinyin. I had
> read some past threads from 2000. Anyway, I consider <x, j, q> to be an
> allophone of the three series. Regardless of its allophone status, <x, j,
> q> should be indicated with the same symbols as one of three phoneme series
> to reserve independent letters for tones.
>

Yes, it seems wasteful to use those three letters up like that.  And I
really never cared for the Pinyin use of <q> or <x>, though that's just a
personal opinion.

Just for fun, my "reform" quickly:

- <m n p t k b d g c z s f h r l w ch zh sh> stay the same.

- <x> indicates palatalized pronunciation, just as <h> indicates
retroflex.  So Pinyin <x, j, q> become <sx, zx, cx> if showing the palatal
pronunciation explicitly is desired.  This letter can be ignored when using
the system for entering hanzi on computers.  You can write <s, z, c> or <h,
g, k> to indicate archaic pronunciations, in rare cases where the old
distinctions are retained, in Chinese opera or wherever.  You can also
write <hx, gx, kx> if you really wanted to, to indicate a historically
velar pronunciation that's been palatalized, though I am not sure this
would be needed.

- <ŋ> becomes the standard way to write the coda <ng>.  I believe Pinyin
already allows this but it seems little used, at least in the Western text
I've see.

- <q> is reserved as a substitute for <ŋ>, due to its similar shape, where <
ŋ> causes a problem for printing.  Getting rid of <ng> takes a load off the
eyes.

- <j> is redeployed to replace most of uses of Pinyin <y>; in other words
<j> is the "pseudo-initial" semivowel form of <i>.  So Pinyin <yi> becomes
<ji>.

- <y> is now the rounded high front vowel, replacing <ü> (which is written
<u> after palatals, but now we can be consistent).  Thus the tone diacritic
never has to be stacked on top of the umlaut.

- <y̆>, i.e. y with breve, is the semivowel counterpart of <y>, replacing
<yu->, if needed or desired.  I don't think it's needed though; you could
just as well write <jy> or <wy> for <yu> i.e. /y/, without a (true) initial
consonant.  But y-breve is there if necessary, or if consistency is desired.

- <v> is reserved as a substitute for <y̆>.  But, again, this is probably
not needed.  And that's good, because using <v> for anything other than /v/
and similar sounds is ugly.

What I like most about my system is the parallelism between <sh, zh, ch>
and <sx, zx, cx>; more generally, all the affricates and sibilants start
with one of <s, z, c>.  I am sure I am not the first person to have this
idea, of course.



>
> I now have another idea to represent the <x, j, q>: use <h, g, k> in place
> of <x, j, q> instead of <ir> for the syllabic consonant. <v> could then be
> used to represent [y]. On further modification to prevent ambiguity in
> syllable boundary, <q> could be used to represent phonemically null
> initial. I propose <q> because it is close representation to a glottal
> stop. The phonemically null onset in Mandarin can be pronunced with
> multiple consonants but it is represented by the glottal stop in Cantonese
> and Shanghainese. By marking the syllable boundary in this way, /i, y, u/
> could be represented solely by their IPA counterpart and <v, w> could be
> used to represent tones instead. This would reserve <v, w, j, x> to mark
> tones.
>


Purely out of curiosity, what is your rationale for wanting to use letters
to mark tones?  In the age of Unicode and computer-aided printing, I
believe diacritics have come to cause relative few problems, and they're
the conventional means for marking things like tones in the Latin-alphabet
tradition.  Unlike tone-letters, diacritics wouldn't cause naive Westerners
to insert spurious segments into Chinese words, which are already hard
enough for them to get right.

-Mike
-- 
co ma'a mke

Xorban blog: Xorban.wordpress.com <http://xorban.wordpress.com/>
My LL blog: Loglang.wordpress.com <http://loglang.wordpress.com/>

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