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CONLANG  September 2017, Week 3

CONLANG September 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: YAEPT word-initial eth

From:

"Mike S." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 20 Sep 2017 16:04:44 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:32 AM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>
> It's an ingenious idea, but the obvious problem cases are _than_ and
> _though_ and perhaps clausal _that_ (/ðət/). I don't see in what
> (pertinent) sense _than_ is a twin of _then_.
>
> If "then" had a reduced form, then it would be exactly the usual
pronunciation of "than".  If fact, given all the spelling mix-ups, one
might think that "than" *is* the reduced form of "then" given a different
spelling.

But if we were to agree "than" is unconnected to "then" and is a
conjunction and is not +definite, then I would conjecture the origin of /ð/
this way:

Stage 1: initial /θ/ becomes /ð/ in words that predominantly receive minimal
prosodic stress.  This would affect not only "the" but also "than" and
clausal "that", though not demonstrative "that".

Stage 2: the same change spreads to other function words with +definite
meaning.

I would guess that "though" originally had the meaning "despite that" and
acquired its other uses later.



> Yes, I wouldn't consider it a holdout. But it's a significant datum. It
> confirms my contention that there is no prohibition against initial þ in
> function words. It also might suggest that for þither speakers (who, being
> American, lack _thicky_ and _thonder_), initial ð is restricted to
> monosyllables and hence initial þ and ð are in complementary distribution
> (i.e. ð- in monosyllabic function words and þ- elsewhere).
>
>
> --And.
>

"Thicky", which I just looked up today, is totally outlandish to me.  I can
just barely make myself believe that "[ð]icky book" means "this/that book"
since the first word sounds a little like "this".   However, I can not make
myself believe that "[θ]icky book" is anything in English other than a
weird way of saying "thick book".  The initial /ð/ feels meaningful to me.

"Thonder" is easier to correctly guess as {th + (y)onder}, but still
unheard of (i.e. IME).

"Therefore" is not a monosyllabic, but you are correct in the main.

One thing that strikes me about the word-initial change to eth is how few
minimal pairs were generated.  About the only one I can think of is "thy"
versus "thigh", and that gh was possibly not silent at the time of the
change.  Initial /θ/ could have remained /θ/, and it wouldn't have affected
the language very much at all.  I suspect the change stabilized &
propagated mainly because of the meaning that came to be associated with
initial /ð/ by a quirk of phonological fate, but of course that's just my
guess.

-Mike

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