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CONLANG  September 2017, Week 3

CONLANG September 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Reform of pinyin

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 21 Sep 2017 00:48:12 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

What is the real null initial which the European languages have that
pinyin/Chinese do not?

stevo

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Victor Chan <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> On 20 Sep, 2017, "Mike S." wrote:
>
> > [omit typo error] I think it's more conventional to get the device to
> accommodate the
> desired orthography, not to design the orthography around the limitations
> of old devices.  (This goes for any script, not just Latin-based.)  As time
> goes on, interface designs tend to improve, and old computer limitations
> tend to go away (as do the old scripts built around them, such as X-SAMPA).
>
> > If the diacritics are too small, one could create a variant of the font
> with bigger/clearer diacritics, or in a pinch simply adjust the print size.
>
> You would have a point on the accomodation from device. However, I would
> not recommended the use of diacritics; Chinese tones have high functional
> load and so should by marked by a full symbol. On the topic of pinyin
> reform, the use of tone numbers would make my proposed reform to pinyin
> (other than the semantic marking system) unnecessary since the tone number
> could also mark syllable boundary. However, I would still recommended a
> letter for phonemically null initial since the Chinese languages lack a
> real null initial in contrast to the European languages.
>
> > I read this, and the other thread, and now I think I understand what you
> are trying to do.  It's not a bad idea, but I think it's a bit heavy-handed
> to insert so much silent material in all-caps. I would suggest that you
> reduce the character-identifying symbol to a single Latin letter, which
> would serve as a "hanzi code" for that particular bit of Pinyin.  For
> example, zao3 "morning" would be zao3R.  For the Pinyin word "zao3", the R
> would be understood to refer to ri4 "sun".  For other Pinyin words, the R
> may refer to something different.  I assume the reader familiar with hanzi
> will often be able to guess the code, or at least easily remember it after
> looking it up.  For some words, you might want to use a letter like "R"
> twice, and you will be forced to use another letter for one or the other
> component.  So you might be forced to make some arbitrary assignments that
> have to be memorized.  But with a little ingenuity, I suspect the memory
> tax could be kept to a bearable level.
>
> > I also imagine this hanzi-code letter could be reduced to a *subscript*
> in
> formattable text such as HTML.  The code letter will have to be capital in
> plaintext, to avoid misinterpretation.
>
> I would not call it "hanzi code" but I am trying to mark the meaning of
> the words in a similar manner as hanzi with similar correspondence. The
> semantic (or meaning) letter do not necessarily all have to be capitalized:
> the capitalization could occur at one part of the segment like in the main
> vowel. An alternate method in formattable text is to insert a symbol before
> the semantic component to indicate that the following syllable mark the
> meaning.
>
> The ability to distinguish homophones by marking meanings with a modified
> Western orthography would theorectically cause Hanzi to disappear from
> everyday communication in the sino-sphere. However, I would still expect
> hanzi to be used in China as an art. Foreigners would no longer need to
> learn hanzi for communication with Chinese people unless they want to learn
> the Chinese culture as well.
>

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