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CONLANG  October 2017, Week 2

CONLANG October 2017, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Subjunctive, conditional, and related moods

From:

Melroch <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 13 Oct 2017 10:57:36 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

When linguists give a form or construction in a newly described language a
traditional name like "subjunctive" it is generally because it shares
*some* important function(s) or feature(s) with what has been called
"subjunctive" in other languages. It is to be expected that features in
unrelated languages which share a label will differ more or less in
function. One (set of) form(s) covering both "subjunctive" and
"conditional" functions is probably pretty common, since they are both
subspecies of irrealis.
What term you pick is then ultimately a matter of taste.

/bpj

Den 13 okt 2017 02:58 skrev "Herman Miller" <[log in to unmask]>:

> I've been going over old Jarda texts trying to sort out the grammar and
> I've been noticing inconsistent usages of the -ki verb form, which I've
> labeled as "subjunctive". In some cases it makes sense to call it
> subjunctive, as far as I understand, and in other cases it's more of a
> conditional, based on what I found when I looked them up on Wikipedia to
> figure out the proper usage.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrealis_mood
>
> It turns out also that it looks like I've been using the word
> "conditional" incorrectly in my Tirëlat grammar notes. The -nu form in
> Tirëlat is really an equivalent of the word "if" (pretty much the opposite
> of what it looks like it's supposed to be). But I don't know if there's a
> better term than "conditional" for that usage.
>
> In any case, Jarda "-ki" can be used in both clauses of a conditional
> sentence, not just the dependent clause.
>
> Au sin nêski lôṛa vŏ,
> And if you saw it,
>
> vjôlki lôṛa vŏi ðôr.
> you would compare it with gold.
>
> But it's not always used in both clauses, as in this recent example from
> "Łimğağ":
>
> Śuküki śṛi lôi va
> you would not trust your eyes
>
> sin ğêl źeğnên łimğağṛa
> if 16,777,216 glowbugs emit
>
> ğüm ka vluğin zê kel ziṛa daz.
> light to the world as I start to sleep
>
> (ğêl, not ğêlki)
>
> It's also used in an imperative sense, e.g. "miski vŏ" (look at her), "va
> ruvki tjun" (don't try to hide).
>
> So I'm trying to sort out which of these Jarda usages is correct; whether
> I've used -ki incorrectly in places or whether I've left it out where I
> should have had it. And then I need to figure out what to call the thing. I
> still think "subjunctive" might be the best word for it.
>

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