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CONLANG  December 2017, Week 3

CONLANG December 2017, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Terminology Question

From:

Doug Barton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 17 Dec 2017 15:14:25 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

OK I got it now, thank you.  Yes indeed, earlier in this chapter and in 
the previous I gave detailed descriptions of all L. phonemes and 
allophones and where they occur.  As for 2. below, I've thought a lot 
about this, and consider the results of mutations as phonemes not 
allophones, if only because both results are sounds that are already 
phonemes in the language.  And the reason I treat them under a separate 
section consonant mutations rather than the section on allophones.

Doug

On 12/17/2017 2:19 PM, Dirk Elzinga wrote:
> Here are a couple of questions that might help:
>
> 1.  Do you have somewhere in your description a list / table of phonemes
> and a discussion of their allophones? If so, you have an implicit theory of
> levels in the sound structure of your language. Your acknowledgement of
> this can be as simple as "Here is a list (chart) of the *phonemes* of
> Lusitanian." "Here are some common *allophonic processes* in Lusitanian."
> That orients the reader enough to know that there are at least a phonemic
> and a (systematic) phonetic level of structure.
>
> 2.  Are the results of mutation phonemes themselves or are they allophones
> of phonemes? If the former, you have a more complex theory of levels -- one
> in which phonemes can become other phonemes under certain
> morpho-phonological circumstances. Rules relating phonemes to other
> phonemes are different from rules that relate phonemes to their allophones.
> This difference should be obvious in your description by being treated in
> different sections.
>
> Dirk
>
> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Doug Barton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks a lot Dirk.
>>
>> Frankly I don't know if I have or have already stated a theory of
>> levels...  Can you give me an example of how one would look as pertains to
>> these mutations?  Since L. has allophones of some of its phonemes, and
>> underlying forms vs mutated realizations, does that automatically imply
>> levels?  Sorry if dumb question - I appreciate your help though.
>>
>> DB
>>
>>
>> On 12/17/2017 12:40 PM, Dirk Elzinga wrote:
>>
>>> I can think of at least three ways that the word 'rule' can be used in
>>> language description.
>>>
>>> 1.  Prescriptive: A rule can be a statement that prescribes linguistic
>>> behavior: "Don't end a sentence with a preposition." This doesn't seem to
>>> be what you're doing here, though.
>>>
>>> 2.  Process: In a theory of language structure that posits different
>>> levels, a rule can be understood as a statement describing a relationship
>>> between levels. Rules of allophony fall into this category, since they
>>> relate a phonemic or underlying level of structure with a (systematic)
>>> phonetic or surface level. They are typically overtly processual in
>>> nature:
>>> "A /t/ *becomes* [ɾ] between vowels when the second is unstressed" is such
>>> a rule that describes the relationship between a phoneme /t/ and an
>>> allophone of that phoneme [ɾ] in General American English.
>>>
>>> 3.  Descriptive: A rule can be a statement that describes a fact about
>>> linguistic behavior: "Words do not begin with /ŋ/ in English." However,
>>> some object to such descriptive statements being called "rules" since
>>> there
>>> is no prescribed behavior nor an implied process at work.
>>>
>>> What you have seems closest to the second usage, though, since you use
>>> process terms to describe the alternations: "undergoes mutation", "remain
>>> intact" (implying a process that affects other sounds), "mutate", etc. I'd
>>> say that 'rule' is probably the word you want. However, it does imply a
>>> theory of levels that are related by the rules, so if you have such a
>>> theory it's best to be up front about it (and maybe you are earlier in the
>>> documentation).
>>>
>>> Dirk
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Doug Barton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the link below are five points regarding consonant mutation in
>>>> Lusitanian phonology that I'm calling "rules" for the time being. But I
>>>> suspect they are not rules in the proper sense.  What is a better term,
>>>> if
>>>> any - conditions, cases, patterns?  You can ignore the topic at hand,
>>>> just
>>>> whether these five points could really qualify as rules.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any advice!
>>>>
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kJWAzSadU6tifa4hCJvj0oVBhFIEEI0q
>>>>
>>>>
>

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