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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  February 2018, Week 2

CONLANG February 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Perfect language

From:

Seth KAZAN <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Feb 2018 16:01:51 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (114 lines)

My search for a perfect language leads me to make it a tool of knowledge of
the world...
Not a purely objective way (which is an illusory challenge ...) but in a
fully integrated way to my senses ...
A way to connect permanently my understanding and my speech ...
Meanings and speeches...
All speech acts, order, demand, assent, are avoided, in favor of a
description of the world and relationship to the world ...

2018-02-12 12:18 GMT+01:00 Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>:

> Now the "perfect phonology"!
>
> On 12/02/2018 01:26, Mike S. wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Walker  wrote:
> >
> >> Okay, so I did a little research into what phonemes are cross
> >> linguistically most common. I then made this phonology.
> >>
> >>              |Bilabial|alveolar|palatal|Velar  |Glottal|
> >> Nasal       |   m    |        |       |       |       |
> >> Plosive     |   p    |   t    |       |   k   |       |
> >> fricative   |        |   s    |       |       |       |
> >> approximate |        |        |   j   |       |   h   |
> >> _______________________________________________________
> >>       |Front|back   |
> >> close|  i  |  u    |
> >> open |     | /ɑ/ a |
> >> CV phonotactics.
> >>
> > No /n/?  I would have expected /w/ and CVN syllables, and maybe the
> > diphthong /aj/, too.
>
>
> Yes, having /m/ but no /n/ does seem odd and there is no apparent reason
> given for that.  If you're going have the semi-vowel /j/ you might
> expect /w/ also; but the Esperanto has /j/ but no /w/ (unless you count
> ŭ which is used only as second element in diphthongs).
>
> This has the issue of being perhaps too small. You might end up
>>> with a same-y sounding "Mahi jomi paka tohimo moso tiso hojini"
>>> This is just random text with this phonology, but it shows my
>>> point. It is easy to get lost in and could lead to very long
>>> words.
>>>
>>>
>> You seem to have added /o/!
>>
>
>         :)
>
> At any rate, this phonology is on the minimal end of things, so given
>> a similarly sized lexicon, the roots/words would indeed have to be a
>> little longer (maybe 1-2 syllables) on average than in SAE.  However
>> I also believe that people would be able to get used to it and it
>> would work fine.   So it's an option.
>>
>
> The peoples of Polynesia have got used to it - though they do allow
> themselves five vowels.  Personally I like the Polynesian-type
> phonology. but I know many don't.  That's a matter of taste, not of
> "perfection."
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >>               |Bilabial|alveolar|palatal|velar   |Glottal|
> >> Nasal        |   m    |   n    |       |        |       |
> >> plosive      | p   b  |  t  d  |       | k   g  |       |
> >> fricative    |        |   s    |       |        |       |
> >> affricate    |        |   ts   |       |        |       |
> >> approximate  |  {w}   |        |   j   |   {w}  |   h   |
> >> _________________________________________________________
> >>       |Front|back   |
> >> close|  i  |  u    |
> >> open |     | /ɑ/ a |
> >> CVC phonotactics where the final C is not /h/
>
> I assume the glottal approximant is the voiced fricative [ɦ].
>
> Why not mid vowels /o/ and /e/?
>
> In any case, as Logan Kearsley wrote on 12/02/2018 00:31:
> [snip]
>
>> I'd also note that there are intermediate phonologies available between
>> those two, because you changed more than one thing at once: both the
>> phonemic inventory, and the phonotactics, either of which could've been
>> expanded independently.
>>
>
> Quite right.
>
> It seems to me that George is going through similar considerations (tho
> not the exactly same) as I was occupied with in the Briefscript project,
> cf. my Design Principal #11:
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/ObjAndDesign.html
>
> See also:
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/PhonAndOrthog.html
>
> and the two earlier schemes:
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/ClassicalBS.html
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/RomSyllab.html
>
> In the end, as some on this list know, the Briefscript projrct was
> abandoned because its two main aims were already being met in a natlang!
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/Index.html
>
> But I never aimed at perfection as, for reasons others have given, it's
> not possible.  I set myself certain aims and objectives and tried as
> best I could to meet them.
>

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