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CONLANG  February 2018, Week 2

CONLANG February 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Small secondary development (was: Britainese dental fricative(s))

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 10 Feb 2018 09:18:34 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

On 09/02/2018 19:44, Alex Fink wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2018 16:17:45 +0000, Raymond Brown wrote:
> 
>> But allophonic vowel lengthening had developed in VL.  A stressed 
>> vowel in an open (unblocked/unchecked syllable) or in a final 
>> stressed final position followed by not more than one consonant
>> was phonemically lengthened; these are what Ewert called 'tonic
>> free vowels'; so the vowels marked with the accute in the following
>> are 'tonic free vowels': cása /'ka.sa/ pátre  /'pa.tre/ illác
>> /il'lak/ trés   /tres/
> 
> Ah, that's what it is, thanks.  More or less as And supposed, a 
> consonant in absolute word-final position doesn't count.  It's 
> extrasyllabic, as they'd say in modern lingo.

Do they?  I'll bear that in mind when ...

>> A non-final stressed vowel in a closed (blocked/ checked) syllable 
>> is what Ewert called a 'tonic blocked vowel', e.g. cánto /'kan.to/
>> cástra  /'kas.tra/ sunt    /sunt/
>> 
>> I can, of course, go through the vowels page, sticking strictly 
>> with Ewert's 'tonic free vowels' and 'tonic blocked vowels' and 
>> refer to syllables as 'open' and 'closed' (or, 'unchecked' and 
>> 'checked'). Or are they alternative terms I use for Ewert's
>> 'tonic free vowels' and 'tonic blocked vowels'?
> 
> I think I would have understood any of these terms if I had seen a 
> statement on your pages to the effect that an absolutely final 
> consonant is to be excluded.  (Apologies if there is already one!)

No, it is not there.  As I say, the page as it stands is confusing.  I
shall be revising it asap.  I'll be referring to _stressed_ and
_unstressed_ vowels rather than tonic and atonic ones as (a) it is
stress and not tone we're talking about, and (b) the use of 'tonic' to
mean 'stressed' is, I think, now dated and possibly misleading.

> 
> Anyway, I'm curious why you think syllable structure is not the 
> culprit behind the _aug-_ vs. _l(u)eng-_ languages.  Unless that
> line of questioning has gone on too long.

Did I say that? I haven't thought the thing through as I don't think it
will have any bearing on Britainese.  I would probably think in terms of
a w-prosody and treat each word as a unit, and clearly reference to the
phonetic structure of each word would be required.  But, as you observe,
we've probably gone on too long about _l(u)eng_.

I'll noe be revising the vowels page again, and then return to the
LINGVA and VIDVA bits on the consonants page afterwards.  While I think
the absolutely _perfect_ webpage is no more attainable than the perfect
language, I want to get the consonants, vowels and orthography pages as
reasonably 'perfect' as I can before prodeding to morphology (which has
been buzzing around in my head for ages and is itaching to gt out!).

Ray

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