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CONLANG  February 2018, Week 2

CONLANG February 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Perfect language (was: Re: Conlanging history - Much Better!

From:

Stewart Fraser <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 11 Feb 2018 15:58:48 +0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

I have been scatching my head thinking about the purposes of language.

The only suitable set of answers I have come up with so far is …

1) To tell people things
2) To ask questions
3) To give commands

Now do these 3 purposes mutually impede each other ?

I have never read “The language ZURANDA (for example) is really excellent for giving commands but you have to watch it if you are asking a question … a bit dodgy”.

Having said that, sometimes there is a bit of a trade off. For example I think subject dropping would be more common in English if it were not for possible confusion between imperative and indicative speech. But this is hardy a big deal.

    … Stewart

> On Feb 10, 2018, at 9:58 AM, Dan Henry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> In order to "perfect" language, you must limit yourself to perfecting it
> for one specific purpose, whereas natural languages are multi-purpose tools
> and those purposes are at times opposed to each other, so that a language
> better at serving one purpose is going to be worse at the other.
> 
> Conciseness is opposed to redundancy that allows comprehension when
> information is lost, as if a word of text is smudged or lost to a torn
> corner, or when one is listening to someone speaking in a noisy environment
> or over a bad telephone connection.
> 
> Precision is opposed to ambiguity, each of which has value in communication
> depending on the circumstances.
> 
> 
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:16 AM, And Rosta <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> On 7 Feb 2018 07:52, "Stewart Fraser" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> I have always been aware that that life/mankind is far from perfect. Also I
>> have had the feeling that language is the most basic thing that defines
>> humanity. It seems to me, if you want to improve something, you must start
>> at the bottom : you must build up the way. Hence my quest for a “perfect”
>> language.
>> 
>> Now I know the above is not logical (as misguided as Zamenhof’s idea that a
>> common language would prevent war), but nevertheless it’s how I feel.
>> 
>> 
>> My interest in conlanging (or at least my own) has been similarly driven by
>> the quest for a "perfect" language (I can remember a line I wrote in my
>> twenties in a poem in homage to Anthony Burgess or the poet Nicholas Moore,
>> "inventing a beltistolaly, / tinkering its gist croquised / while
>> flourishing a cavalierly / pennoned euphrasy cockade", where 'beltistolaly'
>> must be meant to mean an optimal tongue). Like most of us, I have the
>> intuitive understanding that language is phenomenologically fundamental to
>> our lifeworld, and also that it is a tool. Pretty much any tool is capable
>> of improvement; there can always be a design better fitted to fulfilling
>> the function of the tool. So this conviction of language's importance and
>> improvability sends me on the quest for a perfect language.
>> 
>> I don't in the least feel that the quest is misguided, and I still feel
>> that it is of potentially great value to humanity; but also I feel that as
>> time goes on, the task of making any progress in the quest seems harder and
>> harder. The computational capacity of the human mind seems an insuperable
>> limitation that dooms any human language to reproachful imperfection. And
>> we have yet to fully uncover the inner workings of any natural language,
>> and it is hybristic to suppose that we can design a tool better than one
>> whose inner workings we only glimpse but which has been honed by a sort of
>> natural selection. I've spent my life studying English, which experience
>> suffuses me more with the desire to understand its workings better than to
>> discard it in favour of something better.
>> 
>> --And.
>> 

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