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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  February 2018, Week 2

CONLANG February 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Perfect language

From:

Raymond Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:18:07 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

Now the "perfect phonology"!

On 12/02/2018 01:26, Mike S. wrote:
 > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 6:41 PM, George Walker  wrote:
 >
 >> Okay, so I did a little research into what phonemes are cross
 >> linguistically most common. I then made this phonology.
 >>
 >>              |Bilabial|alveolar|palatal|Velar  |Glottal|
 >> Nasal       |   m    |        |       |       |       |
 >> Plosive     |   p    |   t    |       |   k   |       |
 >> fricative   |        |   s    |       |       |       |
 >> approximate |        |        |   j   |       |   h   |
 >> _______________________________________________________
 >>       |Front|back   |
 >> close|  i  |  u    |
 >> open |     | /ɑ/ a |
 >> CV phonotactics.
 >>
 > No /n/?  I would have expected /w/ and CVN syllables, and maybe the
 > diphthong /aj/, too.


Yes, having /m/ but no /n/ does seem odd and there is no apparent reason
given for that.  If you're going have the semi-vowel /j/ you might
expect /w/ also; but the Esperanto has /j/ but no /w/ (unless you count
ŭ which is used only as second element in diphthongs).

>> This has the issue of being perhaps too small. You might end up
>> with a same-y sounding "Mahi jomi paka tohimo moso tiso hojini"
>> This is just random text with this phonology, but it shows my
>> point. It is easy to get lost in and could lead to very long
>> words.
>> 
> 
> You seem to have added /o/!

	:)

> At any rate, this phonology is on the minimal end of things, so given
> a similarly sized lexicon, the roots/words would indeed have to be a
> little longer (maybe 1-2 syllables) on average than in SAE.  However
> I also believe that people would be able to get used to it and it
> would work fine.   So it's an option.

The peoples of Polynesia have got used to it - though they do allow
themselves five vowels.  Personally I like the Polynesian-type
phonology. but I know many don't.  That's a matter of taste, not of
"perfection."

 >
 >
 >>
 >>               |Bilabial|alveolar|palatal|velar   |Glottal|
 >> Nasal        |   m    |   n    |       |        |       |
 >> plosive      | p   b  |  t  d  |       | k   g  |       |
 >> fricative    |        |   s    |       |        |       |
 >> affricate    |        |   ts   |       |        |       |
 >> approximate  |  {w}   |        |   j   |   {w}  |   h   |
 >> _________________________________________________________
 >>       |Front|back   |
 >> close|  i  |  u    |
 >> open |     | /ɑ/ a |
 >> CVC phonotactics where the final C is not /h/

I assume the glottal approximant is the voiced fricative [ɦ].

Why not mid vowels /o/ and /e/?

In any case, as Logan Kearsley wrote on 12/02/2018 00:31:
[snip]
> I'd also note that there are intermediate phonologies available 
> between those two, because you changed more than one thing at once: 
> both the phonemic inventory, and the phonotactics, either of which 
> could've been expanded independently.

Quite right.

It seems to me that George is going through similar considerations (tho
not the exactly same) as I was occupied with in the Briefscript project,
cf. my Design Principal #11:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/ObjAndDesign.html

See also:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/PhonAndOrthog.html

and the two earlier schemes:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/ClassicalBS.html
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/RomSyllab.html

In the end, as some on this list know, the Briefscript projrct was
abandoned because its two main aims were already being met in a natlang!
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/Index.html

But I never aimed at perfection as, for reasons others have given, it's
not possible.  I set myself certain aims and objectives and tried as
best I could to meet them.

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