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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  February 2018, Week 4

CONLANG February 2018, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Britainese has [θ] and [ð]

From:

Pete Bleackley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 28 Feb 2018 14:45:56 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

I find both the conclusions and the reasoning behind them highly pleasing.

>----Original message----
>From : [log in to unmask]
>Date : 27/02/2018 - 17:12 (GMT)
>To : [log in to unmask]
>Subject : Britainese has [θ] and [ð]
>
>A meeting I was to attend this afternoon has been cancelled/postponed
>because of snow that's hit the eastern side of the UK.  So having gained
>more time, I'm getting round now to explaining my resons for the subject
>line.
>
>1. That [θ] and [ð] were not prserved in Gaelic either in OTL or in BART
>is IMO not relevant.  This was a development in _Ireland_, not Britain,
>and taken across to Scotland during the 5th to 10th centuries.  But as
>it has been observed, English, Welsh and Cornish have preserved these
>sounds for more than one and half millennia until the present day.  We
>may take it as an areal feature of Britain south of Gaeldom.
>
>2. Early Britainese, like early French and other western Romance
>languages inherited [ð] as a result of lenition of /d/ when intervocal
>or final in Proto-Western-Romance.
>
>3. The Ingvaeones who settled in Britain had word-initial [θ]; it is
>likely that some loan words from Ingvaeonic would have contained [θ].
>That this did not happen in continental Romance languages is because
>continental Germanic underwent th-fronting: High German by about 900
>(hence we do not find [θ] in Raeto-Romance borrowings from High German),
>and in the Low German languages between 11th and 14th centuries (during
>the 12th century French was already losing [ð]), thus we do not find [t]
>not [θ] in loan words from Franksh.
>
>4. Thus just as in OTL in Britain one Germanic language, i.e. English,
>and two Celtic languages, Welsh and Cornish, have retained [[θ] and [ð]
>for one and half millennia till the present day, so in BART in britain
>one Romance language has retained [[θ] and [ð] for one and half
>millennia till the present day.
>
>Note:
>This will not make Britainese unique among Romance languages in having
>both [θ] and [ð] phones; as several people have pointed out, this is not
>uncommon among Romance languages.  What is, admittedly, more unusual is
>to have both phonemes /θ/ and /ð/, though even that is found.
>
>I am totally unpersuaded by the argument that the sounds are unstable
>and that the chances are they would have been lost at some stage simply
>because there are languages that in which these sounds have remained
>stable for a good mellenniun and half at least, e.g.  Welsh, English and
>Greek; and they have remained stable in Icelandic ever since Norsemen
>settled in that island from the 9th century onwards.   Maybe it's a
>feature of languages on fringe areas.  :)
>
>So, yes, as I wrote on 21st Feb.: "... as well as subsection '3.2.2
>Germanic /w/ retained', I'll have [to] have 'Germanic /h/ and /θ/
>retained."
>
>Ray
>

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