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CONLANG  March 2018, Week 2

CONLANG March 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: A longish monologue on phonology (instead of Salish syntax (^_^) )

From:

Aidan Aannestad <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 12 Mar 2018 23:22:11 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (149 lines)

On 2018/03/12 19:03, Logan Kearsley wrote:
> On 12 March 2018 at 12:59, Aidan Aannestad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On 2018/03/12 12:25, Logan Kearsley wrote:
>>> On 11 March 2018 at 19:37, Aidan Aannestad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suppose I can summarise by saying that this particular linguistic
>>>> theory -
>>>> autosegmental phonology - is having a quite profound impact on my
>>>> conlanging, and allowing me to create even more realistic pairings of
>>>> overt
>>>> complexity with covert simplicity. (It's even providing better
>>>> explanations
>>>> for phenomena in Emihtazuu that I decided on before I'd heard of it!).
>>> That does not surprise me. Honestly, if presented with only these two
>>> examples, I would have come up with a quite different explanation of
>>> the alternation than the "real one" you've presented (which is quite
>>> nice!), although I'm not sure what exactly I'd do about the tones.
>>> It'd be interesting to see a wider range of examples that give *more*
>>> support to the multilayered autosegmental analysis.
>>>
>>> -l.
>>
>> I'd be curious what different explanation you'd come up with! I don't have
>> much more in the way of examples, since those were created specifically to
>> illustrate this principle that the language will incorporate once it's much
>> more fleshed out. Perhaps these might affect your analysis, or they might
>> not:
> Well, let's see....
>
> We've got these surface alternations:
>
> nàmétá ~ nàméér̥á
> ðònàtà ~ ðònòr̥à
> kárútɨ́ ~ kárúúr̥ɨ́
> mírɨ́tɨ́ ~ mírìr̥ɨ̀
>
> The first thing to do is see if we can extract any common material for
> the roots. The most plausible root-affix splits (i.e., the ones the
> preserve the most common root material and minimize variation in the
> affixes) appear to be
>
> nàmé- ~ nàmé-tá ~ nàmé-é-r̥á
> ðòn- ~ ðòn-à-tà ~ ðòn-ò-r̥à
> kárú- ~ kárú-tɨ́ ~ kárú-ú-r̥ɨ́
> mírɨ- ~ mírɨ́-tɨ́ ~ mírì-r̥ɨ̀
>
> That leaves us having to explain the origin of the epenthetic vowels
> and tones, and the variation in suffix vowel quality. We can explain
> the suffix vowel quality with a simple harmony rule, with
> right-spreading features. Similarly, the tone appears to be a matter
> of simple right-spreading.  /mírì-r̥ɨ̀/ presents a problem, with the
> tone appearing to change on the root; but with only one example of
> that, no additional forms to compare with, and out of the context of
> an exam question that tells me there are no irregularities... that
> could just be a one-off irregularity, or it could be explained by
> multiple classes of verbs (some of which change tone in the second
> form and some of which don't), or a system of unpredictable principle
> parts for the paradigm with arbitrary syncretism in the other three
> examples... etc. The fact that the other three examples all show
> epenthetic vowels in the -r̥V form while /mírɨ́-/ does not would seem
> to support that analysis. So, we can explain those vowels by just
> saying that for one class of verbs, the modal stem is formed by
> reduplicating the final stem vowel before affixing, and for another
> class it is formed by changing the tone of the final vowel (possibly
> class II could not contain any verbs with consonant final stems, but
> maybe it does and they just use the same repair strategy as
> /ðòn-à-tà/, explained next).
This does seem like a case where a word-class analysis would also make a 
fully valid set of predictions. It just happens to be a case where such 
an analysis misses the deeper reason behind the differences between 
classes. Some languages force you into having a set of word classes 
because they have nothing whatsoever in the synchronic grammar to 
differentiate the word classes - their odd behaviour is totally 
arbitrary. This is a case where there is a synchronic deeper reason - it 
doesn't invalidate a word class analysis, it just makes it less 
explanatory than it could be.

> The past tense examples only include a single instance of an
> epenthetic vowel, and different from the modal vowel in the same
> paradigm, but that is conveniently paired with the only
> consonant-final stem. So, I'd guess that /a/ is a "default" epenthetic
> vowel (probably constrained by harmony rules) that gets put in to fix
> up consonant-final stems in bits of the paradigm that don't already
> specify the addition of some other vowel (e.g., sourced from
> reduplication).
>
> This analysis would be strengthened if there were other forms in the
> paradigm, aside from the modal form and using different suffixes,
> which nevertheless used the same reduplicated / tone-shifted stem
> forms. If there weren't, then we'd almost *have* to associate the
> extra vowel slot with the suffix rather than with the root (which gets
> closer to your autosegmental analysis), and / mírì-r̥ɨ̀/ becomes
> harder to explain.
Any affix that begins with an empty V would trigger the same situation, 
but that (at least according to your logic) weakens the case for its 
inclusion with the affix.

Perhaps try some more forms with another affix added to them?

/káròònàtà /'took a quick look'
/káròònòr̥à /'would rather like to take a quick look'
/mírònátá /'said a couple of things'
/mírònór̥á /'would rather like to say a couple of things'

/nàmóònàtà /[nàmóà̯nàtà]
/nàmóònòr̥à /[nàmóà̯nòr̥à]/
ðònónátá
ðònónór̥á
/
My 'canonical' analysis would be that this antipassive-sort-of-thing is 
of the form /-on/ marked with a 'polar tone', i.e. not marked with a 
specific tone but marked as the opposite of whatever the last tone was. 
VV sequences with only one marked tone have that tone spread to both Vs 
before any other spreading, and in the case of /mírònátá /and 
/mírònór̥á/, the P tone from the antipassive thing gets shoved one step 
rightwards onto an unmarked V to make space for the L tone from the 
stem. A filled V slot will have its vowel also associate to an adjacent 
preceding V slot, overwriting whatever vowel was there before.

(The diphthongisation is subphonemic - all contour tones cause something 
like a centralisation of the low tone half.)

Thus, 'canonically':

káru-on(P)-t
káru-on(P)-Vr̥
mir(HL)-on(P)-t
mir(HL)-on(P)-Vr̥

nàmé-on(P)-t
nàmé-on(P)-Vr̥
ðòn-on(P)-t
ðòn-on(P)-Vr̥

>
> And this is a good example of why I think it'd be fun to do a
> collaborative conlanging project some time where someone writes up a
> description of a conlang based entirely on field-work-style interviews
> with a second conlanger, and independent analysis of the results....
>
> -l.
That sounds positively /amazing/. I'd love to participate in something 
like that someday.


---
このメールは、AVG によってウイルス チェックされています。
http://www.avg.com

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July 2006, Week 5
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July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
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April 2006, Week 5
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April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
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February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
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January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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July 2005, Week 3
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July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
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May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
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February 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
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April 2004, Week 1
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February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
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August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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May 2002, Week 3
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
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January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
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September 2001, Week 3
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June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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December 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 5
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September 1998, Week 3

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