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CONLANG  March 2018, Week 2

CONLANG March 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Charting question

From:

Siva Kalyan <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:57:12 +1100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (73 lines)

I'm not sure about that. I pronounce "bunched r" with the tip of my tongue raised, whereas I would pronounce [ɨ] with the tip of the tongue against my lower teeth.

Siva

> On 15 Mar 2018, at 9:37 am, Melroch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> To me American "bunched r" sounds just like the semivowel counterpart to
> [ɨ], which I unhesitatingly would symbolize with ‹ɉ› U+0249[^j], or since
> people perceive it as a rhotic with ‹ɍ› U+024D[^r]. Unfortunately I've
> never had a chance to compare the "bunched r" with [ɨ] other than aurally
> so I don't know how accurate the equation is. The ‹ɍ› U+024D might be a
> good provisional symbol regardless!
> 
> I have contact between the edges of my tung and the molars when I
> articulate front and central high vowels but I have no idea how common that
> is.  It may be due to my cerebral palsy.
> 
> And, whatever we may think about it the IPA has been officially defined
> articulatorily since over a century ago. I would agree that at least for
> vowels that is largely a conceit.
> 
> bfowol wrote:
> 
>> I forgot that the extIPA does have lenis & fortis diacritics [◌͉  ◌͈],
> but these do not specify the extended articulation mentioned.
> 
> They do indeed.  Thanks for drawing my attention to it!
> 
> And while checking this I saw that extIPA indeed recommends ‹ɹ̈› for
> bunched/molar r! I'd still prefer ‹ɍ› U+024D though!
> 
> /bpj
> 
> 
> [^j]: https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/0249/index.htm
> [^r]: https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/024d/index.htm
> 
> Den 14 mar 2018 11:27 skrev "And Rosta" <[log in to unmask]>:
> 
>> On 14 March 2018 at 03:30, Paul Roser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 13 Mar 2018 21:16:00 -0400, Paul Roser <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Acoustically it does sound like a more retracted retroflex, which could
>>> be partially due to the rounding. The fact there ther's a bit of a
>> "growl"
>>> to it may be because of tongue root retraction, but since there seems to
>> be
>>> free alternation between tongue tip up & down, it reminds me of the
>> English
>>> alternation between apical and molar 'r'.
>> 
>> 
>> This is a good observation. So the prototype ingredients of this phone seem
>> to be (1) lip rounding, (2) frication, (3) the acoustic shape of American
>> R, which can vary articulatorily from subapicopalatal/retroflex to whatever
>> the articulatory basis of molar R is (a sort of velar approximant that is
>> r-coloured by concavity of the forepart of the tongue? Lancashire Rhotic
>> varieties have just the velar approximant bit, syllabically, without the
>> concavity.).
>> 
>> 
>>> So provisionally I think I'd go with [ʐ̠ʷ ~ ʐ̈ʷ] indicating a retracted
>>> or, similar to its usage for molar or bunched-r, centralized rounded
>>> retroflex.
>> 
>> 
>> Or perhaps [ɹ̝ʷ], especially if the [ɹ] component of the symbol could be
>> replaced by something that just means 'American R'.
>> 
>> --And.
>> 

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