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CONLANG  March 2018, Week 3

CONLANG March 2018, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Another thought on adjectives: Absolute comparatives

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:28:34 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (59 lines)

On 15 March 2018 at 21:10, kechpaja <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Ékivrin!
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 08:11:01PM +0000, Logan Kearsley wrote:
>> As a person who gets sick a lot, I have an intimate familiarity with
>> the sentence "Yeah, I'm feeling better, but not good."
>>
>> This seems like a strange construction to me. How can something be
>> better, but not be good? Or taller but not tall, hotter but not hot,
>> etc.? Clearly all of these things *are* possible, and I don't know of
>> a better way to express them, but it just feels wrong every time.
>>
>> So, here's an idea: separate comparative forms that mean "more than
>> the standard of comparison along axis x" (what we have for
>> comparatives in English right now) and "past the point necessary to be
>> categorized as x as well as being further along then the standard of
>> comparison"; e.g. "better and also good", "hotter and also actually
>> hot", etc.
>>
>> That way, my concerned mother could distinguish between asking "Are
>> you feeling (good and) better yet?" vs. "Are you feeling better
>> (regardless of whether you're good) yet?". Or to paraphrase in more
>> natural English "Are you feeling good again?" (with "better than you
>> were" being implied) vs. "Are you improving?"
>>
>> Any ANADEWs for that distinction?
>
> I'm not sure about ANADEWs, but you remind me of a conlang idea I had a
> while back: namely, to have all adjectives (or at least all adjectives
> for which a comparative would make sense) be inherently comparative, and
> then derive the positive forms with an inflection meaning "than some
> locally salient standard of comparision".

Interesting! That tickles my formal semantics sensibilities. It would
nicely surface the reason why a large mouse isn't large, and a small
elephant isn't small, despite the fact that there is no explicit
comparison involved.

> Coming back to your original idea, I feel like you can sort of get that
> distinction in English via intonation and emphasis — say, imagine that
> your friend has been trying to grow a *big* plant, but the last time you
> checked it, it was still a tiny seedling. When you ask how things are
> coming along with that project, they might answer:
>
> "Well, it's bigg*er*,  but I wouldn't call it *big* yet."
>
> I guess you could also have a language where the normal way of
> expressing "hotter but not yet truly hot" was to say "less cold" (which
> you can also do in English, although it still feels kind of marked).
>
> It also bears pointing out that "better" in the sense of "healthy again
> after being sick" seems to be an idiomatic meaning that isn't really a
> traditional comparative anymore — I would say that for me at least, it
> doesn't feel like it means "better than before and now actually
> healthy". It feels closer to a resumptive aspectual form of "healthy" or
> "good", with the "better than before" meaning being secondary at most.
>
>  - kechpaja -

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