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CONLANG  April 2018, Week 1

CONLANG April 2018, Week 1

Subject:

Re: On Apology

From:

Seth KAZAN <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 4 Apr 2018 23:05:31 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (128 lines)

The problem of polite expressions, is their demotivation ...
By nature they do not want to say anything about the words that compose
them ...
In conlang, I practice largely to get rid of the duckspeaking, I prefer not
having any, especially since I prefer for the same reason, traveling
light...

2018-04-03 23:30 GMT+02:00 A Walker Scott <[log in to unmask]>:

> I need to take a look at this semantic space in Gravgaln.  I imagine things
> like "don't hit me" and "what is my restitution" could fall in this range.
> It's also probable that nonverbal things like standing ready to take a
> punch fall in this range as well.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Walter Sperat <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As a native Spanish speaker, I've always found interesting the
> difference
> > > between English's "sorry" and Spanish's "perdón" (which is the most
> usual
> > > apology in used in my dialect). Despite both being applicable in very
> > > similar contexts, they are inherently different: "sorry" implies
> remorse
> > by
> > > the speaker, while "perdón" is a request for forgiveness. Most dialects
> > of
> > > Spanish have another phrase, "lo siento", which basically means "I'm
> > sorry"
> > > in a similar way to English (literally "I am sorry about it". It is
> > > technically possible in my dialect, but nobody uses it).
> > >
> >
> > Yes, I was taught (by my Cuban-American instructor) to say «lo siento».
> > What is more interesting to me is that its most literal translation seems
> > to be "I feel it", which is an interesting way indeed to express the idea
> > of apology.
> >
> > We learned «perdón» as well, but as more akin to "excuse me" (or "pardon
> > me", to follow the cognate to a slightly higher English register).
> Although
> > most of the time, if I'm saying something in Spanish in lieu of English
> > "excuse me", it's because I'm maneuvering past someone in a crowded or
> > cramped space, in which case I say «(con) permiso» instead, literally
> > "(with) permission".
> >
> > AFMCL I have nothing interesting in the apology space, just verbs that I
> > have glossed as "be sorry". Something to think about..
> >
> >
> >
> > > On this note, my conlang (work in progress...) has both types of
> apology
> > > and, for lack of better terms, I have called them the "passive" apology
> > and
> > > the "active" apology (or the ergative and absolutive one). The passive
> > > apology is an intransitive verb, so the speaker refers to themselves in
> > the
> > > absolutive case; while the active apology declines the speaker in the
> > > ergative case, and the apologee in the absolutive case. The first kind
> of
> > > apology implies that the speaker regrets what they have done, and is an
> > > expression of remorse or anguish, and the second one is used when the
> > > speaker has in some way harmed the listener and is actively seeking
> > > forgiveness.
> > > I know it may be a bit trivial, but I kind of like how it came
> together.
> > > Hadn't thought about using evidentials... I'll have to give it some
> > > thought.
> > > W.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Pete Bleackley <0000016b6787169d-dmarc-
> > > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Indeed, having evidentials creates a whole new way to lie  - you just
> > > have
> > > > to use the wrong evidential and present heresay as personal
> experience.
> > > > >----Original message----
> > > > >From : [log in to unmask]
> > > > >Date : 03/04/2018 - 18:35 (BST)
> > > > >To : [log in to unmask]
> > > > >Subject : Re: On Apology
> > > > >
> > > > >Why? You can just as much lie *with* evidentials as without them.
> > > > >--
> > > > >Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> > > > >President of the Language Creation Society (http://conlang.org)
> > > > >
> > > > >Personal Website: http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com
> > > > >Personal Tumblr:  http://christophoronomicon.tumblr.com
> > > > >
> > > > >Sent from my phone. Sorry for the potential typos and autocorrect
> > > errors.
> > > > >
> > > > >On Tue, Apr 3, 2018, 19:32 toki <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 04/03/2018 04:43 PM, Logan Kearsley wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Further discussion clarified that, while having more words for
> > > apology
> > > > >> > won't eliminate deception or false signalling, because people
> can
> > > > >> > still *lie*, there's a difference between "carefully walking
> down
> > a
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hence the need for evidential grammar as a fundamental part of the
> > > > >> language.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> jonathon
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>
> >
>

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