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CONLANG  April 2018, Week 1

CONLANG April 2018, Week 1

Subject:

Re: A topicality-based inverse system (a long monograph on syntax)

From:

Aidan Aannestad <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 5 Apr 2018 16:04:24 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

On 2018/04/05 7:07, And Rosta wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 22:20 Aidan Aannestad, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to create a language where at
>> least some part of its 'morphosyntactic alignment' (a bit of a
>> heterogenous term that kind of means several things at once) is based in
>> the language's topic/focus structure. More specifically, I'm trying to
>> make it look something like an analogue of
>> animacy/person(/obviation)-based direct-inverse systems, where there's
>> an explicitly 'expected' correlation between a noun's semantics (there,
>> animacy, person and/or proximative/obviative status) and the noun's
>> semantic role (~= syntactic status). This monograph is me trying to
>> figure out how exactly such a system should work - and trying to make
>> this system in such a way that it can't be analysed as something else.
>>
>>
>> S=T, no oblique
>> S=F, no oblique
>> S=T, O=ø
>> S=T, O=F
>> O=T, S=ø
>> O=T, S=F
>>
>>
>> A=T, U=ø
>> A=T, U=F
>> A=T, U=ø, O=ø
>> A=T, U=F, O=ø
>> A=T, U=ø, O=F
>> A=F, U=T
>> A=F, U=T, O=ø
>> A=F, U=ø, O=F
>> A=ø, U=T, O=F
>> A=ø, U=F, O=T
>>
>
> If you're aiming for a naturalistic humelang, then a semasiological
> description should suffice, and there's no reason to expect the grammar to
> be at all optimal. But my engelangery looks at conlangs onomasiologically,
> rather as your exposition does, and in that case I think the
> onomasiological starting point isn't quite right, in three ways.
(You might need to explain 'onomasiological' for me :P )
> Firstly, neither topic nor focus need comprise only one 'clause component';
> each might comprise multiple clause components.
I'm not sure I get what you mean by this. Do you mean that I could eg 
have both A and O be topic simultaneously, or both part of one topic? 
Japanese seems to disallow this entirely, at least as far as topics go - 
you can only have two topics if one is a peripheral oblique (i.e. not 
required by the verb's semantic structure), and I don't even know how 
mechanically you'd put two things into one topic. I'm less sure about 
foci, but putting two focus markers in one sentence sounds bizarre to my 
ear.
> Secondly, your exposition supposes that a sentence necessarily has a topic
> and doesn't necessarily have a focus, whereas I'd have thought it
> necessarily has a focus and doesn't necessarily have a topic (-- the entire
> sentence could constitute the focus).
You may be right on the necessity of a focus, but I (having now thought 
about it) suspect that the 'unmarked case' of a sentence is one in which 
a noun phrase is topic and /the verb itself///is focus. In Japanese, at 
least, a sentence like TOPIC VERB results in focus-like intonation on 
the verb. It very much feels like, though - again pulling on Japanese - 
that if your one NP is the focus, then the verb is the topic - FOCUS 
VERB results in topic-like intonation on the verb. I'm not going to go 
as engelangy as I could in marking the verb for topic/focus, though, 
outside of very marked nominalising constructions - I'm happy to just 
let that be clear from the NP's marking.

I can't wrap my mind around a whole sentence being focus unless it's a 
subclause, or if you're going out of your way to emphasise each and 
every constituent (eg in confirming all parts of a sentence after some 
confusion in transmission; in which case intonation seems to do well for 
that).

> Thirdly, in the case of subordinate clauses, with certain semantic roles,
> such as Sayee, there is a nice distinction between the information
> structure assigned by the illocutionary speaker, the deictic ego, and the
> information structure assigned by the Sayer. An optimal loglang would
> afford representations of both simultaneously. (Cf the ambiguity of "what"
> in "Who wondered who saw what".)
I actually just recently skimmed a paper arguing that Japanese can mark 
a distinction between such things (eg in a sentence that looks like TOP 
OBJ SUBCLAUSE QUOTVERB, where what's marked as 'object' is arguably the 
topic of the quoted subclause). I might be able handle that through not 
providing any indirect quotation constructions, and forcing the embedded 
quotation to be in the form of a direct quotation with its own internal 
topic, but I'll have to do some experimentation to see how that works 
out. Certainly such a subclause would not have an external topic/focus 
specification.

> Obviously you're not aiming for an optimal
> loglang, but this still maps out the semantic space that is the
> onomasiological starting point.
>
> --And.
No, that's quite helpful! I'm basically running off of my 
non-native-Japanese-speaker's intuition for trying to figure out how 
these things work, so I'm happy to hear from a different perspective.

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