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CONLANG  April 2018, Week 1

CONLANG April 2018, Week 1

Subject:

Re: A topicality-based inverse system (a long monograph on syntax)

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 6 Apr 2018 00:46:06 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

On 5 April 2018 at 22:04, Aidan Aannestad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 2018/04/05 7:07, And Rosta wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 22:20 Aidan Aannestad, <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to create a language where at
>>> least some part of its 'morphosyntactic alignment' (a bit of a
>>> heterogenous term that kind of means several things at once) is based in
>>> the language's topic/focus structure. More specifically, I'm trying to
>>> make it look something like an analogue of
>>> animacy/person(/obviation)-based direct-inverse systems, where there's
>>> an explicitly 'expected' correlation between a noun's semantics (there,
>>> animacy, person and/or proximative/obviative status) and the noun's
>>> semantic role (~= syntactic status). This monograph is me trying to
>>> figure out how exactly such a system should work - and trying to make
>>> this system in such a way that it can't be analysed as something else.
>>>
>>>
>>> S=T, no oblique
>>> S=F, no oblique
>>> S=T, O=ø
>>> S=T, O=F
>>> O=T, S=ø
>>> O=T, S=F
>>>
>>>
>>> A=T, U=ø
>>> A=T, U=F
>>> A=T, U=ø, O=ø
>>> A=T, U=F, O=ø
>>> A=T, U=ø, O=F
>>> A=F, U=T
>>> A=F, U=T, O=ø
>>> A=F, U=ø, O=F
>>> A=ø, U=T, O=F
>>> A=ø, U=F, O=T
>>>
>>>
>> If you're aiming for a naturalistic humelang, then a semasiological
>> description should suffice, and there's no reason to expect the grammar to
>> be at all optimal. But my engelangery looks at conlangs onomasiologically,
>> rather as your exposition does, and in that case I think the
>> onomasiological starting point isn't quite right, in three ways.
>>
> (You might need to explain 'onomasiological' for me :P )


= start with meaning and then see how the language encodes it
(whereas semasiological = start with the language and then see what
meanings it encodes)


>
> Firstly, neither topic nor focus need comprise only one 'clause component';
>> each might comprise multiple clause components.
>>
> I'm not sure I get what you mean by this. Do you mean that I could eg have
> both A and O be topic simultaneously, or both part of one topic? Japanese
> seems to disallow this entirely, at least as far as topics go - you can
> only have two topics if one is a peripheral oblique (i.e. not required by
> the verb's semantic structure), and I don't even know how mechanically
> you'd put two things into one topic. I'm less sure about foci, but putting
> two focus markers in one sentence sounds bizarre to my ear.


I meant that there's a single topic and a single focus, but the topic or
focus includes more than just A or just O or whatnot.

"What happened on Tuesday?" "<On Tuesday,> [Sophy met Edgar for the first
time]."   <top> [foc]
"Who kissed who? "[Edgar, Sophy] <kissed>"
"What did Sophy do?" "<Sophy> [kissed Edgar]"

... and so on

Secondly, your exposition supposes that a sentence necessarily has a topic
>> and doesn't necessarily have a focus, whereas I'd have thought it
>> necessarily has a focus and doesn't necessarily have a topic (-- the
>> entire
>> sentence could constitute the focus).
>>
> You may be right on the necessity of a focus, but I (having now thought
> about it) suspect that the 'unmarked case' of a sentence is one in which a
> noun phrase is topic and /the verb itself///is focus.


That's "unmarked" in the sense of "typical", yes.



> I can't wrap my mind around a whole sentence being focus unless it's a
> subclause, or if you're going out of your way to emphasise each and every
> constituent (eg in confirming all parts of a sentence after some confusion
> in transmission; in which case intonation seems to do well for that).


I mean a case where the whole sentence contains new info. "Guess what! --
Sophy kissed Edgar.". "(In other news,) inflation is at 4%".

--And.

>

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