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CONLANG  April 2018, Week 2

CONLANG April 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Conlang Numerals

From:

Tim Smith <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 8 Apr 2018 22:23:42 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (100 lines)

Oddly enough, the conlang that I'm currently working on, provisionally 
called Nenyuvai, does have a fully-developed system for writing numbers, 
even though the rest of the conscript is still at a very preliminary 
stage of development.  The conculture where Nenyuvai is spoken uses a 
sexagisimal (base-60) number system, which developed out of an earlier 
quinary (base-5) system, as can be seen by the fact that the basic 
number words are _bàt_ "one", _zé_ "two", _lí_ "three", _vó_ "four", and 
_kán_ "five" (from mekán "hand").  The system was later augmented by 
_trá_ "sixty" and _syèl_ "thirty" (which originally meant "half", but 
later came to mean "half of sixty"; the more general meaning of "half" 
was taken over by another word, yet to be determined).  For "zero", they 
use the negative-indefinite pronoun _hyussa_ (animate, "nobody") or 
_hyussu_ (inanimate, "nothing").  For numbers between five and sixty, 
the basic number words are compounded in a fairly systematic way: a 
larger number before a smaller means addition, and a smaller before a 
larger means multiplication, e.g., _zékan_ "ten" (literally "two five"), 
_kanzé_ "seven" (lit. "five two"), _zékanzé "twelve" (lit. "two five 
two").  Juxtaposing two equal numbers also means multiplication; this 
only occurs with _kán_ "five": _kankan_ "twenty-five" (lit. "five 
five"), _kankambàt_ "twenty-six" (lit. "five five one"), etc.

To write numbers, they use a positional notation in which (contrary to 
most real-world systems, and to your intuition, Dave) a horizontal line 
means zero, not one.  A dot below the line means one; a dot above it 
means five.  A half-length horizontal line above the full-length one 
means fifteen; a double full-length line means thirty; a double 
full-lenth line with a half-length line above it means forty-five.  When 
the half-length line is used, it is always over the left half of the 
full-length line(s), leaving enough space to its right for up to two 
dots.  There can be as many as four dots below the line(s), and as many 
as two dots above the highest full-length line (centered if there is no 
half-length line).  Thus, the possible "single-digit" glyphs go from 
zero (a single full-length line with nothing added) to fifty-nine (two 
full-length lines with four dots below and a half-length line plus two 
dots above).

I got the idea for this from the system used by the ancient Mayans to 
write their vigisimal (base-20) system.  Theirs was also a positional 
system, but without any symbol for zero, which meant that numbers could 
be ambiguous, especially when taken out of context.  It, too, consisted 
of lines and dots, but unlike the Nenyuvai system, the lines were 
vertical and the dots were arranged in a vertical row to the right of 
the rightmost line. (But their writing system was vertical, and the 
Nenyuvai system is horizontal.)  Each line meant five, and each dot 
meant one; a "digit" could be anything from one dot, meaning one, to 
three lines and four dots, meaning nineteen.

-- Tim

On 4/8/2018 7:47 AM, Raymond Brown wrote:
> On 07/04/2018 23:01, Dave Rutan wrote:
>> Pilgres,If you create numerals to go along with the numbers you 
>> create in a given conlang, do you try to use some kind of logic for 
>> them, or just basically create glyphs that 'look good'?
>
> 'Looks good' is purely subjective.  There have always been AFAIK
> objective reasons for symbols used as numerals among natlangs.
>
>> I can't get away from using a vertical straight line, or something
>> similar for '1'.
>
> An _horozontal_ straight line as, e.g., Chinese  一
>
>> And then there's the equally difficult '0'.
>
> Not always expressed in traditional number systems.  where it is
> expressed some symbol like a dot as a place-marker may be used.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 08/04/2018 11:40, James Hopkins wrote:> Dave,
>>
>> Itlani uses the first 10 letters of its alphabet for the numerals 1
>> - 0. When used as numerals these glyphs have mark before the first 
>> glyph to indicate that what follows is not a word or an 
>> initialization but rather a number.
>
> Ancient Greek and Hebrew used all the symbols of their alphabets as
> numeral symbols also.
>
> Greek actually 'padded out' their 24 letters with two obsolte one, _vau_
> (or _digamma_) ϝ and _qoppa_  ϙ as well adding a symbol of uncertain
> origin ϡ, to give 27 symbols: the first nine letters represent unitis 1
> through 9, the second nine letters the tens 10 through 90, and the last
> none the humdreds from 100 through 900.   A small symbol like an acute
> accent after the letters showed they were being used as numerals, and a
> similar symbol on the line before the letters meant the numerals were to
> be multiplied by 1000.
>
> Of course the Romans, as is well known, used some of the letters of
> their alphabets as numerals in their odd biquinary system inherited from
> the Etruscans.
>
> You may like to look at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system
>
> and follow some of the links in the 'See also' section towrds the end.
>
> Ray
>

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