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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  April 2018, Week 3

CONLANG April 2018, Week 3

Subject:

Re: case systems in your languages

From:

James Hopkins <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 21 Apr 2018 04:07:50 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (191 lines)

It could also be that the Locative is vestigial in the sense of being used
only in certain set phrases. I believe Latin and Alurhsa do this. On the
other hand I think it gives a language a certain unique quirkiness when it
doesn't always do what one would expect or sometimes does the completely
unexpected. In Lortho the absence of a Locative form could be feature and
not a bug.

Itlani Jim

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 2:00 AM, Pete Bleackley <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> It wouldn't be unusual for one of the other cases to double up in meaning.
>
> >----Original message----
> >From : [log in to unmask]
> >Date : 21/04/2018 - 03:11 (BST)
> >To : [log in to unmask]
> >Subject : Re: case systems in your languages
> >
> >Lortho currently has ten cases:
> >
> >1. Nominative (subject)
> >2. Accusative (direct object)
> >3. Dative (indirect object)
> >4. Genitive (possessor)
> >5. Lative (movement in/into)
> >6. Ablative (movement from/out of)
> >7. Allative (movement to/towards)
> >8. Prolative (movement through/via)
> >9. Instrumental (using/with)
> >10. Vocative (address)
> >
> >After listing these and reading through the other responses, I realized
> >there is a gap. While I have the cases for movement towards, into, out of,
> >or through, I do not have the locative case. You'd think that with all
> this
> >movement stuff that location would be rather important.
> >
> >very respectfully,
> >
> >Brian B. Bourque
> >SFC, USA (Ret)
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
> >"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to
> >stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
> >___________________
> >http://lortho.conlang.org
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Jyri Lehtinen <[log in to unmask]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Here's where the case system of Kišta has converged over the years:
> >>
> >> 1. Nominative - The unmarked base form, prototypically grammatical
> >> subjects, adnominal modifiers (including possessors), and postpositional
> >> complements. I have no doubt that it'll also find a lot of use for the
> >> subjects and objects of non-finite dependent clauses once I get to
> working
> >> on them.
> >> 2. Accusative - The direct object
> >> 3. Focus - The case used for subjects, objects and human recipients in
> the
> >> main clause when falling in narrow argument focus. It descends from an
> >> older ablative and there are still adverbs in the language which
> >> incorporate it into their form.
> >> 4. Lative - General movement to or towards and recipients
> >> 5. Illative - Movement into a concrete location or up to a point. I may
> >> also give it secondary meanings of a purposive and change of state case.
> >> 6. Locative - Location at
> >> 7. Ablative - Movement from
> >> 8. Instrumental - Tools as well as well as movement through. I may
> restrict
> >> this secondary prolative use at least dialectally to a set list of
> >> topographic nouns, though.
> >> 9. Caritive - Lack of
> >>
> >> Postpositions are relational nouns in Kišta and the local postpositions
> >> typically have their own defective locative case paradigms. The most
> recent
> >> developments of the noun case paradigm haven't reached the
> postpositions,
> >> so the local postpositions preserve a more archaic state of the
> >> lative-locative-ablative triad.
> >>
> >> There's also a set of orientative suffixes that come before the locative
> >> case suffixes on nouns. These originate from agglutinated local
> >> postpositions and thus the locative cases they take are directly
> related to
> >> the postpositional case paradigm instead of following the regular noun
> >> cases.
> >>
> >> For Janti I've had the idea of a three case paradigm of a nominative,
> >> oblique, and locative, with a comitative maybe added diaectally. Here
> the
> >> unmarked nominative is basically the case of core arguments and oblique
> the
> >> typical case of various obliques. The oblique case can also be used for
> >> high animacy objects if they can't be disambiguated from the subject
> verb
> >> morphology or context. Both the oblique and locative cases are used for
> all
> >> sorts of local meanings. The locative case will probably lean more
> towards
> >> locative and ablative meanings than the oblique case but I intend to
> make
> >> their distribution somewhat random and ultimately lexically determined
> by
> >> the choice of the verb. This is, however, something where I haven't
> written
> >> down anything concrete yet.
> >>
> >>    -Jyri
> >>
> >>
> >> 2018-04-19 14:58 GMT+02:00 Katerina <[log in to unmask]>:
> >>
> >> > not sure whether there already is a thread for this or not - what case
> >> > systems do your languages use?
> >> >
> >> > the one for T'elχ isn't complete yet, but i decided that the meanings
> of
> >> > the cases should resemble a combination of the chukchi and itelmen
> case
> >> > systems because i am partial to both (for some reason).
> >> >
> >> > orientative-dative [to, for]: used for physical movement toward an
> object
> >> > or in a particular direction, or to mark the recipient or beneficiary
> of
> >> an
> >> > action
> >> > determinative [by; at, near, around]: used for the physical location
> or
> >> > direction of movement (with an object serving as a landmark), or for
> an
> >> > entity or object that serves as an example, model or framework for
> >> another
> >> > entity/object
> >> > causal/narrative [because of, for the purpose of, for the reason that;
> >> of,
> >> > about, regarding]: used to mark the cause or goal of an action or the
> >> > subject of a story (narrative)
> >> > designative [as, for, instead of; as, like, similar to; for, in order
> >> to]:
> >> > used to state a role or purpose or to express the resemblance between
> one
> >> > entity or object and another
> >> > translative [into]: used for an entity or object that is transformed
> or
> >> > turned into a different entity/object (as in "the human being was made
> >> > T'elχ")
> >> > abessive/privative/caritive [without]: used to state the absence or
> lack
> >> of
> >> > an entity or object
> >> > ablative [away from]: used for physical movement away from an object
> or
> >> in
> >> > the opposite direction, or for an entity or object that loses or is
> >> > deprived of something
> >> > instrumental [using, by means of, with]: used for an instrument or
> means
> >> > whereby an action is performed, may mark the agent or the patient (or
> >> both
> >> > simultaneously)
> >> > comitative I [with, together with, along with]: used for joint
> actions;
> >> > connotes inseparability, used for inalienable parts of a whole, or
> >> persons)
> >> > (circumfix)
> >> > comitative II [with, together with, along with]: used for joint
> actions
> >> or
> >> > actions that require the presence of a specific object; connotes
> >> > separability, used for objects and entities not considered "persons")
> >> > (circumfix)
> >> > locative [in, within, inside]: used for physical location in the most
> >> > general sense, has a variety of figurative meanings
> >> > vocative: used to address a sapient entity directly
> >> >
> >> > peace,
> >> >
> >> > cathy
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

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May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
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April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
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December 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
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September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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