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CONLANG  April 2018, Week 3

CONLANG April 2018, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Bird names

From:

Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 15 Apr 2018 04:21:28 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (32 lines)

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 15:06:12 -0400, C. Brickner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>In the Sefdaanian cultures, each individual is a member of a hierarchy of communities. The Ethrans have used this hierarchy as a pattern for their classification of life forms.
[...]
>And finally, there is the individual himself. This division, the "še̋ða" ["še̋ðu", individual], corresponds to 'species' in modern taxonomy.

That seems like it could be a genuinely confusing polysemy: biologists often study communities of individuals representing multiple species.  Unless e.g. only a loquent can be a _še̋ðu_.  Oh, or is there a change-of-gender derivation going on here that keeps the words consistently apart?  I suppose that would avert confusion but it still seems errorprone.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2018 20:46:00 -0600, Daniel Bowman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Herman,
>
>I am interested to know whether, in your conhistory, the bird names
>went from more descriptive to more systematic as they did here on
>Earth (channelling Alex Fink's earlier post here).  Also, It seems as
>though the systematic bird naming schema in Tirëlat occurs *in the
>language itself* as opposed to being manifested in a different
>language (some antiquated, professional tongue equivalent to Latin).
>Why is this?  The answers will reveal quite a bit about the culture as
>well as the language, I think.

Good questions.  I'll throw in another: what do Tirëlat biologists do when they discover new species, enough in number that one of the categories gets "too big", and a _mundapjak_ has to be turned into a _lağipjak_, and potentially so on up the chain?

And I don't understand your comments, Herman, about multiple names and non-cladistic categories.


With an engelanger hat on I can see the appeal of a cladistic taxonomic system with no defined _levels_ at all, neither corresponding to 'kingdom, phylum, ..., genus' nor by size as in Herman's system nor in another way.  You are interested in some clade, you name it; it'll contain some species and some other clades, be contained in yet other clades; that's all the structure a taxonomy really needs.

And come to think of it, dvandvas are actually a very nice solution to naming clades.  You don't need any new lexical material at all, just the rule that the clade X-Y contains all the organisms descended from the last common ancestor of X and Y, plus some sort of tradition of "representative taxa" for standardisation.  Aves could thus be the Ostrich-Sparrows; then Paleognathae the Ostrich-Kiwis, and Neognathae the Goose-Sparrows; and so on up and down the line, from Anatidae = Goose-Ducks to the superordinate clade of all earthly (non-viral?) life = Salmonella-Humans.  I suppose this is like Pāniṇi's _pratyāhāra_s, except better -- two species have one last common ancestor, full stop, whereas for phonemes you either need to figure out a discrete feature system, or make a list (like the Śiva Sūtra) and then be robbed of your ability to name categories which fix a value for the quickest-varying feature in your list order but not a slower-varying feature, or so on.

Alex

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