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CONLANG  July 2018, Week 4

CONLANG July 2018, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Artlang for exclusive spousal use

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 23 Jul 2018 23:01:45 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (137 lines)

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 at 04:58, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 22:48:42 -0400, Jaymes Lauser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >Greetings,
> >
> >As a lover of the art of conlanging and communication in general, I
> >had the idea of creating a language for the exclusive private use of
> >myself and my soon-to-be-wife. It would not be exclusively for the
> >purposes of intimate (sexual) communication, though there would be a
> >bias towards that use since it is incredibly practical for that
> >purpose. There are lots of features I want to include just for more
> >precise nuances of communication and to reflect our unique
> >relationship and culture beyond that.
[...]
> >1) My fiancee is NOT a language nut. She's intelligent and well-spoken
> >and likes the idea of the project and wants to be able to use it, but
> >she's not a linguistics nerd and her eyes glaze over when I start
> >talking about affixes and conjugations. So the prime directive is to
> >make it simple and easy to learn so that she doesn't get burned out
> >and annoyed with it. I want to create a feature-full language while
> >hiding all the whiz-bang coolness behind the scenes so to speak so
> >she's not overwhelmed. Ideas on how to do this would be fantastic.
>
> I can't help you here!  Neither Sai nor I actually _learned_ more than a few words of the gripping language.  To do that I'd need more practice even at reliably distinguishing the phonemes, first.  And anyway we're both the sort to geek out over design features.
>
> Logan Kearsley might have some useful comments, as he and his wife have had a go at using a conlang together, if I remember right.  I can't find a thread in the archives about this at the moment, though I did turn this up while looking for it:
>   https://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=CONLANG;a695c6d2.1801c

Thanks for the shout-out! I saw this pretty quickly, but I've hardly
had any time to sit down and compose a proper response until late this
evening.
If you wanna do any more archive-diving for my previous discussions of
that project, the name of language ended up as Mev Pailom. I was
posting about it before the name solidified, but that should at least
help with starting to find relevant material.

My fiancee-and-then-wife and I learned a fair bit of the
language--mostly stuff useful for txting to each other, like "I miss
you!" (<Wev ma ti>* / <We mi ta>**), because text-based communication
allowed for pausing to think about how to actually say stuff. We never
did manage to become properly fluent in it, and although she has
occasionally mentioned the possibility of reviving it, I think the
most significant barrier to doing so was just the simple fact that we
both already spoke English. It was always way to easy to just say
whatever we needed to in English, rather than forcing ourselves to
commit to practicing the conlang. So I expect my most useful piece of
advice would just be to make sure that you have some means of
maintaining your motivation, external to just "wouldn't this be cool?"
I don't know what that motivation would look like, though. If you
happen to figure it out, do let me know what worked for you!

* I use this example because, purely coincidentally, my wife mentioned
just a couple of days ago that this was the only sentence she actually
remembered how to say. So, that gives you some idea of how well the
project has "stuck" six years in!
** There are two versions of this sentence because the language
included gendered first and second person pronouns, so which one of us
is saying it matters. We also included a clusivity distinction in the
first person plural pronouns (not at all an unusual thing to have
cross-linguistically) because it seemed like distinguishing between
"the two of us" and "at least one of us along with some other people"
was a pretty fundamental thing for a language primarily intended for
just two people. We also had separate possessive forms for literal
ownership vs. familial relations and various other not-legal-ownership
kinds of things, such that a phrase like "my wife" (<mir amriwa>, lit.
"1sg.MASC-GEN marry-THEME") has no possibility of being misinterpreted
as implying that I "own" her.

> >2) Partly because of the above, and partly because of the unique
> >nature of a language that is always only spoken between two specific
> >people, I think a lot of the normal boilerplate morphological aspects
> >could be stripped out. Pronouns and persons and suchlike could be
> >really simplified, I think. Ideas on this would also be greatly
> >appreciated. Aside from the richness of the vocabulary itself and the
> >design of the phonetics and a few other features, I would like this
> >language to be as straightforward and minimalist as possible. (I don't
> >mind borrowing directly from languages like Esperanto which are known
> >for their ease of learning.)

Re: richness of vocabulary vs. ease of learning all that vocabulary, I
recommend a extensive system of productive derivational morphology.
Never make up a new root word for something if you can find a way to
derive it from an existing word (unless, of course, it's more fun to
make up a new root!) That way, if you forget a word that your partner
used, you'll probably be able to figure out what it means by analyzing
the parts; and if you forget how to say something, you can probably
re-invent a fair approximation, if not actually the correct word, on
the spot.

If that ends up resulting in a LEGO-block aesthetic that you don't
particularly like, consider throwing in some non-concatenative
morphology to mix things up a bit.

As for what derivational operations to include, and what things to use
as roots, while you may want to examine what sorts of semantic domains
would be most useful in your own relationship for a lot of that, I
recommend reading _Lexical Semantics of a Machine Translation
Interlanguage_ by Rick Morneau for a very detailed look at identifying
basic semantic relations between words and explicitly realizing them
in morphology. (Also note that the boundary between "morphology" and
"syntax" can be fuzzy at times, and if you think your derivational
morphology is getting too complex, you can trick yourself by adding
spaces and deciding that some of these affixes are actually separate
words and now you're doing syntax instead.)

For an example of how the specific nature of our relationship
influenced the lexical structure of Mev Pailom, note that both my wife
and I have "physical touch" as a high-priority "love language", and so
many things end up described in terms of their relationship to or
usefulness in various physical activities, while many of those
specific activities have root words even though they might be
derivable fro each other in theory. "Couch", for example, translates
as "cuddle-location-thing". If your relationship is less centered
around non-sexual romantic physical contact, you might not feel the
need for a distinct root for, e.g., "cuddle" vs. "hug", and you my
find that a "couch" is better described by some different salient
characteristics.

On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 at 14:39, Aidan Aannestad <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> On the topic of the 'she's not into technical linguistic descriptions of
> things' point, there's no reason you actually need to /describe/ the
> language to her in any way. There are methods of learning language out
> there that make no reference whatsoever to actual descriptions of the
> grammatical structures or processes (the Growing Participator Approach
> is the one I've seen). Those sorts of methods also make the learning
> process a lot more interactional and a lot less like a class, and so you
> could find that 'doing some new-word-learning activities' is a good way
> to spend some fun time with your spouse. Plus, you can put in any sort
> of complexity you like, and you never have to describe it - all you have
> to do is demonstrate it.

I am a fan of the "Where Are Your Keys" interactive fluency game
(https://whereareyourkeys.org/).

-l.

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