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CONLANG  November 2018, Week 2

CONLANG November 2018, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Vowel harmony and dictionaries

From:

Melroch <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 8 Nov 2018 15:45:28 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (134 lines)

IIRC there was/is an official Cyrillic orthography which used ь after the
vowel to mark front vowels, so with this principle applied to Finnish you
would get spellings like яаьтаьлоь, which is probably a good idea since in
compound words you can get some members with front vowels and some with
back vowels.

AFMOC the Sohlob script orthography (or rather spelling habits) of
Hielieb/Hïlïb uses spellings like what would be strictly transliterated as
{iw} /y/, {äw} /œ/, {äwy} /œy/ in the first syllable but since height and
backness aren't contrastive in non-first syllables the letters {ï} for
unrounded and {o} for rounded vowels suffice there. When you come to the
start of a new harmony group in a compound or in a new word you just use a
"full" spelling, including {ïï} for /ɯ/ and {oo} for /ɒ/ in the first
syllable of that group. At least that's how most fluent writers write in
principle. In practice writers may use a "full" spelling anywhere where
they think an ambiguity may arise. Unlike Classical Sohlob Hielieb doesn't
have the voiced velar fricative, normally written with the same letter as
/ɑ/, optionally dotted, so {ïaï} and {oao} are available as spellings for
long /ɯː/ and /ɒː/ and are frequently etymologically correct since long
vowels, and indeed front rounded vowels generally, derive from /Vh(V)/,
/Vɣ(V)/, /Vj(V)/ and /Vw(V)/ sequences, so that a word like _töög_
corresponds to Classical Sohlob _tayog_ and _süür_ corresponds to _suǧir_,
and the more educated a writer is the more likely they are to use the
Classical spelling, but the typical Hielieb writer is a merchant who will
just pick a spelling which points in the right direction, so they write
{toyog/täwäg/tähog}, {siwir/suyur/suyir} or whatever containing letters
with the right "feature set" they think is less ambiguous in context.
Generally minstrels and poets, or the occasional printer's corrector
working on lyrics or poetry are the ones combining a high degree of
linguistic awareness with motivation to write im Hielieb and they may be
more consistent and consciously "exploit" underspecification in non-first
syllables, but only philologists, which are a small group of people indeed,
will borrow and consistently use the Linjieb {ö} and {ü} graphememes ({o}
and {u} with a dot), but they will also write _l_ as turned {r} rather than
as {rr} or {ṙ} so that they can distinguish /ʟ/ from /l/ and /ɾ/ from /r/
and other odd things which noone else would dream of. Occasionally a
minstrel or their printer's corrector will split {ṙ} and {rr} between _l_
and _ł_ but then they can't be sure that someone else reading their text
will see what they are doing. People just barely have a concept of
orthography when it comes to Classical Sohlob, and to the extent that
printers effect any standardization it is in preferring dotted letters to
digraphs and digraphs to trigraphs in order to cram more text into one
sheet. Even then most printers in Sohliel won't have types for Linjieb
letters, nor is it sure that people would find texts using those letters
easier to read.

ons 7 nov. 2018 kl. 16:38 skrev Dirk Elzinga <[log in to unmask]>:

> Yes, you're right; you would only need one per word. As I understand it,
> the soft sign in Cyrillic is a diacritic letter that follows a consonant
> to indicate a palatalized pronunciation. Harrison asserts that the
> solution proposed for Ös was based on the palatalizing gesture found in a
> consonant following a front vowel, so placing the soft sign following that
> consonant makes a lot of sense. This is how he puts it:
>
> "[H]e placed the soft sign after the first consonant following one of the
> three special vowels [DE: æ ø y]. He also decided, economically, that he
> would put in only one soft sign per word. Since Ös has a rule of vowel
> harmony which requires all vowels in a word to be pronounced either in the
> front of the mouth or in the back, only a single soft sign is needed to
> clue in speakers that all the vowels in a word are pronounced towards the
> front of the mouth." (p 156)
>
> Harrison doesn't give any details about other facets of the harmony system
> (e.g., are roots harmonic? what about words with more than 2 syllables?
> are there neutral / opaque vowels? etc), but the little bit that he shows
> of the spelling solution strikes me as ingenious, and as I said earlier,
> aesthetically pleasing.
>
> Dirk
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 9:08 PM MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > In that example (тога [toɡɑ] ~ тогьа [tøgæ]) it seems like the soft sign
> is
> > marking the frontedness of the whole word, so to me it makes more sense
> to
> > put it at the beginning or before the first vowel.
> >
> > stevo
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 4:09 PM Dirk Elzinga <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In his book, _When Languages Die_, David Harrison tells the story of a
> > man
> > > who devises a Cyrillic spelling system for his native language, Ös. It
> > has
> > > vowel harmony of a type similar to Finnish: vowels agree in fronting /
> > > backing with a preceding stem vowel (I don't know if there are neutral
> > > vowels; Harrison doesn't explain the system in much detail).
> > >
> > > What the orthographist did was to use the Cyrillic soft sign Ь to mark
> > > front harmony; the absence of the sign marks back harmony. Harrison
> > > provides a minimal pair illustrating the use of the sign:
> > >
> > > тога [toɡɑ] ~ тогьа [tøgæ]
> > >
> > > (He unfortunately doesn't provide glosses.)
> > >
> > > This is one of the most aesthetically pleasing orthographic devices
> I've
> > > encountered.
> > >
> > > Dirk
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 4:46 PM A Walker Scott <[log in to unmask]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > How do you go about documenting affixes in your language if you have
> > > > stem-controlled vowel harmony in your language?
> > > >
> > > > In Gravgaln, I have some affixes that have to match the stem/root for
> > > > rounding only. In other words, the affix vowel is specified for hight
> > and
> > > > backness, only taking its rounding setting from the stem. Other
> affixes
> > > > seem to have a null vowel, and simply copy the nearest vowel from the
> > > stem,
> > > > in all its settings.
> > > >
> > > > How would you enter such beasties in your dictionary?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *A. Walker Scott, Author of No Road Among the Stars*
> > > > *Sample or purchase No Road Among the Stars*:
> > > > https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/872202
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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August 2002, Week 1
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June 2002, Week 5
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