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CONLANG  December 2018, Week 1

CONLANG December 2018, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Conlinguistic discovery of the day

From:

Stewart Fraser <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 2 Dec 2018 00:59:52 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

I would suspect that xiǎo tù_ 'little rabbit' and bái tù_ 'white rabbit' are compounds. Well that’s the analysis that makes most sense to me (seemingly strange though from an English perspective).

We would really need to get in contact with a native Mandarin speaker to know for sure though.

So much phonetic attrition in Mandarin. Hence the need to add extra bits to disambiguate. I can only think of three English examples that reflect the tù => tùzi transformation …

gull => seagull (presumably at some times and places, “gull” was confused with “girl”. Notice the adjective “gullwing” is never *”seagullwing”.

right => right hand side

lie => lie down

Oh, and I know a nice one from Thai …

seu:(falling tone), honest => seu:(falling tone)sat(low tone) … An English translation would be “animal/beast-honest”.

… Stewart


> On Nov 30, 2018, at 8:21 AM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 02:46:42 +0800, Stewart Fraser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> I found this on the web …
>> 
>> https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01574254/document <https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01574254/document>
>> 
>> Paul's conclusion is …
>> 
>> “ … adjectives have to be postulated as a separate part of speech in Chinese, distinct from (intransitive) stative verbs."
> 
> I forgot, I had a question about the Chinese facts here as well.
> 
> To summarise, Paul makes a case for recognising adjectives in
> Mandarin, with two syntactic positions in which they can modify the
> noun: preceding it directly, or with an intervening _de_.  Direct
> modification (_dà gǒu_ "big dog") names new kinds, and is the
> construction that other analyses have seen as compounding.
> Modification with _de_ (_dà de gǒu_ "big DE dog") simply describes
> without any implication that a natural kind is being identified, and
> is the construction that other analyses have seen as relative clauses.
> 
> Now, I had thought that examples like the following were not uncommon
> in Mandarin: 'rabbit' is _tùzi_, with an empty nominaliser suffix
> _-zi_, and not synchronically _tù_ by itself; but then there are...
> compounds? NPs with an adjective? like _xiǎo( )tù_ 'little rabbit' and
> _bái( )tù_ 'white rabbit' which don't demand the suffix.  It seems
> weird to me to call them NPs with an adjective, 'cause that means that
> each bisyllabic noun of this species has a small, lexical set of
> adjectives after which it can drop one of its syllables.  So
> compounds?  Paul has a test for compoundhood vs. adjectival
> modification, namely whether following headless NPs are licenced
> taking their reference from the head of the compound.  I can contrast
> _hȯng huā_ 'red flowers' with _huáng de_ 'yellow ones' later in the
> utterance, but with a compound, *_hónghuā [...] huáng de_ 'safflowers
> [...] yellow ones (i.e. flowers)' is no good.  Can I say _bái tù [...]
> huáng de_ 'white rabbits [...] yellow ones'?
> 
> Alex

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