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CONLANG  January 2019, Week 4

CONLANG January 2019, Week 4

Subject:

Re: help with Indonesian and Russian pronunciation?

From:

Daniel Bensen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 23 Jan 2019 16:47:51 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (109 lines)

m(_ _)m


On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, 4:39 PM C. Brickner <[log in to unmask] wrote:

> Of course it's important. It's a linguistic personal experience that is of
> interest to all of us.
> Charlie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stewart Fraser <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 07:00:44 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: help with Indonesian and Russian pronunciation?
>
> Normally I don’t contribute to threads about phonetics. However about 20
> years ago I did work in East Java. I spent about about 16 months on a land
> seismic crew there.
>
> One of my memories of that time is the laundry girl insisting that this
> pair of socks belonged to “MisteRRR” (Now I have spent the first twenty
> years of my life in Scotland so I know a trill when I hear one)
>
> This in know way negates what you have said though. Perhaps the East Java
> dialect is different from the Jakarta dialect. Perhaps she thought of me as
> a figure of fun, so “MisteRRR” was sort of paralinguistic thing. I guess I
> will never know now :-( .
>
> Not important. Thought I would give my input.
>
> … Stewart
>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2019, at 6:23 PM, Tristan Mc Leay <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Selamat malam.
> >
> > The r in Indonesian is distinctively not trilled. If you trill it
> Indonesians will correct you. It is standardly a tap/flap rather than a
> trill, or else in the back of the throat, somewhat like French.
> >
> > /p t c k/ are not aspirated, unlike their English counterparts. It is
> alleged that /b d j g/ are devoiced word finally, but I can't hear that
> (then again, I struggle to hear the difference between /p b - t d - c j - k
> g/ in the absence of everything English does to the voiceless member of the
> pair). Indonesians can hear a difference between our tS dZ and their c j,
> but I can't.
> >
> > Might be worth mentioning that "e" is often schwa so they don't try
> saying "say lah maht" or something.
> >
> > I can hear a excessive American accent in your transcriptions; as an
> Australian it's hard for me to believe that /i/ could be perceived as "ee"
> (the only Anglicisation I've heard is a short i—but I've only ever spoken
> Indonesian to Indonesians, Australians and Malaysians), but maybe that's a
> matter of English dialect.
> >
> > /S/ is a foreign/borrowing/learned phoneme in Indonesian. Many people
> will substitute /s/. If it makes a difference what social or age group your
> speakers are coming from.
> >
> > I always thought it was "Apa Itu" not "aPA iTU". But I guess I would
> expect "apaaaa ituuuuu", not "aaaaapa iiiiiiitu", so maybe it's right.
> >
> > Otherwise your transcriptions seem fine. (And yes, I think it's astaRIna
> not asTArina.)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 23, 2019, at 7:45 PM, Daniel Bensen wrote:
> >> Anybody know Indonesian and Russian? I'm sending a pronunciation guide
> to
> >> the guy who's narrating my book and I want to make sure I got it right.
> I
> >> included IPA, but I don't know if he knows IPA.
> >>
> >> *Nurul Astarina *"NOOrool astaREEna" /'nu.rul asta'rina/ (trilled r as
> in
> >> Japanese)
> >> *Rahman Astarina *"Ra-h-MAN astaREEna" (there's an "h" sound before the
> m)
> >> /rah'man asta'rina/
> >> *Syahiral Hariyadi *"shaheeRAL hareeYAdee" /ʃahi'ral hari'jadi/
> >> *Mikhail "**Misha" **Sergeyevich Alekseyev *"myihhaEEL MYEEscha
> >> syirGYEyavyitch aLYECKsyeyev" (this one is tough when Misha says his own
> >> name, there should be a little "y" sound before the vowels i and e, and
> he
> >> will pronounce the "sh" with the tip of his tongue curled backward in
> his
> >> mouth. "MYEEscha" But everyone else can just say "MEEsha." The "hh"
> sound
> >> in Mihail is like the sound in Scottish "loCH") /mʲɪxɐˈil ˈmʲiʂə
> >> sʲɪrˈɡʲejəvʲɪtɕ ɐ'lʲeksʲejəv/
> >>
> >> Indonesian:
> >> Think of it as Japanese again, with trilled r sounds. If you don't know
> >> where to put the accent, put it on the second-to-last syllable)
> >> *Selamat malam* "selAmat malAM" /sə'lamat ma'lam/
> >> *ibu *"EEboo" /'ibu/
> >> *apa itu*? "aPA eeTOO?" /a'pa i'tu/ (although I've also heard "Apa
> EEtoo?"
> >> so I don't know)
> >> *alhamdulillah *"alHAMdooleela" /al'hamdulila/
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Dan
>

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