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CONLANG  April 2019, Week 5

CONLANG April 2019, Week 5

Subject:

Re: On the Semantics of Mood (was: Re: Form/function paradigm mismatches)

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 29 Apr 2019 15:27:11 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 20:29, Stewart Fraser <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Well I have thought about it a bit more, but am still confused.
>
> I really must be missing something here. Aidan said …
>
> “I personally don't like the term 'mood' all that much since in my
> experience it ends up as kind of a wastebasket for a bunch of different
> things; but again, I mean that more semantically than grammatically. I'd
> hesitate to call /will/ 'mood' since of the four or five things I've
> seen grouped under 'mood' none of them directly has to do with time
> reference - but yet again, that's on purely semantic grounds.”
>
> I agree 100% with Aidan but I must admit that I never gave the matter much thought.
>
> We are considering if  “mood” is a thing … does it have the right to “thingness”. For example, in my friends house there is two chairs and a settee. He calls it his suite.
>
> I think it is OK for him to call his settee and two chairs his suite. I think it has a right to “thingness”. If someone was to refer to the globe on my work desk, the mean distance between the two hydrogen atoms in a water molecule and the feeling of dread when you have to articulate in company a word you have only read before which has numerous possible phonetic realisations, a WALGAPO, I would think that person to be off his rocker.
>
> So I was intrigued when you said MOOD can be neatly summed up by “A grammatical category that indicates choices of quantification over possible worlds of discourse.“
>
> Could MOOD actually be deserving of “thingness” ??
>
> Looking at wikipedia I see indicative/interogative/optative and potential are considered moods (among others).
>
> As yet I can not see how your definition ties indicative/interogative/optative and potential together.

Indicative: trivial quantification over the single presumed real world.
Optative: Universal quantification over worlds consistent with the
speaker's/subject's desires.
Potential: Non-trivial quantification over worlds consistent with the
speaker's knowledge.

Interrogative is a tricksy one. Personally, I *don't* think it should
be considered a "mood" cross-linguistically, although it *may*
sometimes pattern with true modal marking in some languages (it
clearly does not in English; there is no interrogative modal verb, for
example). I think that calling interrogative a "mood" is just an
unfortunately established holdover from the historical mushy
definition of "mood" as "a grammatical category having to do with the
speaker's attitude towards the proposition". But even there, it's an
oddball; you can think of interrogative as communicating the attitude
of "wanting to know stuff", but it makes a lot more sense to me to
classify interrogative as a marker of illocutionary force, not mood.
Imperative falls in a similar bucket, although it mixes illocutionary
force with a genuine modal component, which is essentially identical
to optative--its pragmatic content is to get someone to do something
(the illocutionary component), while it's semantic content is the
modal concept of quantification over worlds consistent with the
speaker's wants.

> Actually I still understand next to nothing about your explanation. One thing I can say though …
>
> You said “deontic modal bases are about all worlds that comport with our values--i.e., what ought to be or what is permissible.”
>
> “our values”, “what ought to be”, “what is permissible” ??? … it seems to me you are defining things in terms that are increasingly abstract. Shouldn’t it be the other way around. Shouldn’t you be defining abstract things in terms of things that are more concrete.

I am afraid my intuition here does not agree with your at all. We
agree that "mood" is a somewhat difficult concept to define and
understand; so by comparison, it seems to me that things like "what I
value", "what I think ought to be", "what I think is permissible",
etc., are all very simple, rock-solid concepts. And while the
mechanics of formal logic may be difficult to understand if you aren't
familiar with it, it is extremely concrete and unambiguous.

-l.

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