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AUXLANG  March 1997, Week 2

AUXLANG March 1997, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Re Use of {x} & {q} (& {w}) in CIALs (was: MORE Sample texts in Novial)

From:

"Mr B.Philip.Jonsson [Seeker of Useless Knowledge]" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 Mar 1997 20:33:56 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

At 03:41 9.3.1997 -0800, Bruce R. Gilson wrote:
>rmay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>Mr B.Philip.Jonsson [Seeker of Useless Knowledge] wrote:
>
>
>>> I both agree and disagree. Since there is a variation between different
>>> languages in the pronunciation of {x} as /ks/ or /gz/ in a number of words
>>> (e.g 'example'), the letter {x} is a good cover-symbol allowing speakers to
>>> use either pronunciation. As for {q} (NOT {qu} imho!) it might serve the
>>> same purpose as cover-symbol for [kw] and [kv]. The flaw here is that there
>>> is no similar symbol available for [gw]/[gv]. To propose {w} for this role,
>>> spelling e.g. _linw-_ and _sanw-_, is, while possible, probably too
>>> radical.
>
>>> What do you other auxlangers think?
>
>
>>If I were going to use 'qu' in a conlang for recognition purposes, I'd
>>choose a new pronunciation for 'q', to preserve the one-letter one-sound
>>principle. Perhaps that of English 'j'.  Therefore 'quand' would be
>>pronounced 'jwand' or 'joo-and'.  Of course, no other letter would have
>>that sound.  Having 'q' make a 'k' sound is just too much of an
>>irregularity for a conlang.  'X,' then, could be given the /S/ sound:
>>Examen 'eshamen'.  I'm an eye person, and I think I could learn odd
>>pronunciations for familiarly-written words more easily than the
>>reverse.
>
>
>I'm sorry, but for me that argument is totally ridiculous. The digraph "qu"
>functions as if it were a single letter. If you want, you can CALL it a single
>letter, as in Spanish "ch," "ll," and "rr" are considered single letters.
>If we adopt the convention "qu" = [kw]/[kv] (allophonic usage) we are not
>setting "q" = [k] since "qu" is an indivisible whole.

Moreover my preference was for having {q} WITHOUT a following {u} for
[kw]/[kv], and since the sound [w] wouldn't occur otherwise in the lang at
least the [kw] variant would be a unit phoneme in its own right, while [kv]
could be spelled in no other way than {q}. In the event I have rejected {q}
in Eurial, since no acceptable spelling for /gw/ could be found. The fact
that Germanic *w mostly comes out as {g(u)} in Romance, and English
word-pairs like guard~ward don't IMO deliver enough justification for
{w}=/gw/. How many English speakers would recognize "war", how many Spanish
and Italian "guerra", how many German "wehren" and how many Swedish
"vaerja" in a spelling {wero}? NOT a very usefull compromise, methinks.
OTOH I have kept {x}, to be pronounced either [ks] or [gz] at the
discretion of the speaker, neither sound being written in any other way.

>Besides, making letters have values that they do not have in any natural
>language is to me a far worse defect in an IAL than having two letters
>with the same sound would be.

I agree, though I would include also IPA values as permissible. Also to
drop the {h} and write [tS]/[S] as {c}, when that letter is not used
elsewhere, seems to me permissible.

IIRC {g} and {q} are used in a bit funny way in Fijian. Maybe Leo knows
anything about that?

BPJ <[log in to unmask]>

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