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AUXLANG  March 1997, Week 2

AUXLANG March 1997, Week 2

Subject:

Re: AUXLANG: Sample texts in Novial

From:

rmay <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 9 Mar 1997 06:03:53 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

Mr B.Philip.Jonsson [Seeker of Useless Knowledge] wrote:
>
> At 06:32 8.3.1997 -0800, Leo J. Moser wrote:
>
> >I'm puzzled by the word "halving." I've seen Esperanto promotional
> >materials use the word before. Surely no one believes that the
> >vocabularly of Eo is half as long because half the words begin with
> >mal-! Also the 'stroke of genius' syndrome is a common Eo theme that
> >wears a bit thin when applied to ideas that existed long before Eo.
>
> Who did first come up with this idea? Pirro?

Actually, isn't this just a extension of an a priori phenomenon?  Don't
all natlangs have the equivalent of 'mal'?  Z just extended it to all
words, and of course regularized it.

> [Don Blaheta:]
> >> I think that a compromise is necessary there.  Yes, it's great that for
> >> less common stuff you only need to learn one root which can then be
> >> negated by an affix; but for the more common roots (grand-, bon-) it
> >> seems to get a little clumsy to have all these negation affixes floating
> >> around.  So I would say that for really common words, you should have
> >> a vocabulary opposite (grand-/mikr-, bon-/mal?-).
> >
> >Leo adds:
> >By this sort of simplification, one denies the system certain basic
> >words that it needs to form prefixes. So difficulty reoccurs later.
> >Microscope in Eo is not "Malgrandeskopo" -- nor are microbes
> >"malgrandebios," et al.
>
> Agree with both Don and Leo.

And I agree.  Of course, for these very common words, one could have at
least a mnemonic way to derive them from each other without making them
longer:  bon/nob, gran/narg, or bon/bin, gran/grun, or bon/bojn, gran/grajn.
Such derivations would not have to be 100% regular or predictable.

> >> The other thing that always privately annoyed me about mal- was that
> >> "mal" always carried a meaning of "bad", not just "not".  "Des-" seems
> >> much better for that purpose.
> >
> >"Des" in Novial is, IMO, far too close in sound to Novial "dis"
> >(which incidently has two separate meanings.) Such minor adjustments
> >are what are needed to make Novial competative.
>
> Do you have any proposal for a solution (apart from scrapping 'dis-', that
> is.) Given the available lexical material I think Jespersen's choice of
> 'des-' is far superior to 'mal-'

I'm not crazy about either one.  How about 'bu-' from Mandarin?

> >Jespersen's book on Novial ("An International Language" 1928) is
> >very difficult to find, but many of his works are still in print,
> >including "The Philosophy of Grammar."
>
> I'm thinking of putting at least the theoretical parts of "An International
> Language" on the WWW. Does anyone think that's a good idea?
>

Yes.  I'm sure I'd look at it.

--rmay

--
"That government is best which governs somebody else."
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7429/

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December 2000, Week 3
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December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
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November 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 1
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April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
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February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
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February 1998, Week 1
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January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
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October 1997, Week 4
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