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AUXLANG  April 1997, Week 3

AUXLANG April 1997, Week 3

Subject:

Interlingua

From:

Kapitano Eglefino <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:44:56 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (158 lines)

I [KE] wrote:
> In fact, Dr Gode and his sucessor Dr Gopsill have stated that
> the world outside Europe is:
> a) not in need of an interlanguage.
> b) unsuited to using a euro-style interlanguage.
> Apparantly this is because non-europeans are 'not civilised'.
> Indeed, Esperanto is apparantly not a worthy language because
> it was designed by a 'non-aryan'.

Jay Bowks responded:
>That is a filthy racist statement trying to impute wrong motives on
>two men that have shown devotion to their work and who always spoke
>with respect of all races. Shame on you and on your passing on the
>lie. If you read Rik's book, God forgive you, you'll find a lot of
>this anti-Interlingua propaganda.

   I have read accounts of Dr Gode and Dr Gopsill holding racist
views (even near-Nazi views) from several different sources. If
what I read was simply lies and propaganda, then I feel genuine
shame that I have repeated them.
   I appologize totally.
   My main source of information was indeed Rick's Book. What he
wrote seemed prejudiced, but he seemed to know about the topic, so I
never suspeced that his words might be simple untrue.

[snip]
JB:
> > Gode termed people who hoped to have a world auxiliary
> >made out of Interlingua by the name "Esperantists", and this
> >I believe with a little of disrespect.
KE:
> Not quite accurate. Gode used the term 'Esperantist'
> derogatarily(sp?) to apply to anyone who believed that
> any constructed language could be a world language.
> He believed that:
> a) a world general-purpose interlanguage is simply impossible,
> and apparantly underirable.
> b) a european general-purpose interlanguage is similarly
> impossible, and similarly undesirable.
JB:
>Are we talking in English here, did I not make myself clear or what?
>If I didn't, please understand that I am stating that I have read
>from sources that knew Alexander Gode personally, that he more than
>once called Esperantists all those who had hoped that Interlingua
>become a World Auxiliary Lang., and this was expressed with a feeling
>of disapproval on his part.

   As I understand it, Dr Gode thought that a Global IAL was
an impossible dream, and he THEREFORE disliked the suggestion
that Interlingua could become one.

JB:
>To A. Gode the search for an IAL that would
>please everybody was futile. It certainly seems that way from being
>on Auxlang list don't it, Capt.? If people can't even agree when they
>are saying almost identical things... what "hope" is there? Whats
>the "hope"?
   Cirtainly it is not possible to create an IAL that everyone would
regard as 'Perfect'. But perhaps it is possible to create one that
everyone (or nearly everone) would regard as 'Useable' or
'Acceptable'.
   I am rapidly comming to the conclusion that Esperanto is a
globaly 'acceptable' or 'tolerable' IAL, and that 'acceptability/
tolerability' is a MEANINGFUL criterea for judging IALs, while
'perfection' and 'broad-basedness' and even 'simplcity' are not.
   Oh dear, I think I'm starting to sound like Edmund Grimley-Evans
:)
   As regards the 'tolerability' of Interlingua as a Global IAL,
personally, I aggree with Dr Gode - IL would be nearly useless
outside Romance speaking countries. But there are a lot of
countries with speakers of Romance lamguages.

[snipped]
>The Department of Interlingua for Science Service helped give
>Interlingua a shot of advertising. It was a great idea and it
>certainly gets quoted and remembered a lot doesn't it? Do you
>think that fluent speakers of Ebonics have an easier time than
>polyglot Podiatrists in understanding Interlingua at sight?

    If passive recognition of written text is all that is needed, then
Interlingua is superior to Esperanto, and Ido, Vorlin, Occidental,
Glossa, LSF, and probably every other Conlang ever created.
   If passive recognition of written text, passive recognition of
spoken dialogue, production of text, production of dialogue, and
conversation are all needed, then IL fails, because it wasn't designed
as a language for interaction.

JB:
>Now "Rap" Interlingua, there's a notion, I hate the idea of it
>though, only because the lyrics turn my stomach. But if you want to
>reach a specific sector of society no matter what the level, you
>better have something of interest to say. When trying to win over
>Doctors, Professors, and other Professionals, one wouldn't try to
>sell them with "love poems" and "romance novels", a good paper on a
>current scientific question just might make them take notice and look
>into Interlingua, no?

   What happens if the Doctors and Professionals want to discuss
the currant scientific question after they've read the paper?
   We have recieved several mails in Interlingua over the past few
days, so we know that IL is not ONLY a read-only language.
However, although I could, with difficulty, read the IL posts,
I couldn't begin to write one, let alone conduct conversation.

   Some months ago, I read Gode's slim black book giving
an introduction to IL grammar. It did not help me toward's
the ability to produce IL texts. In comparison, the first four
chapters 'Teach Yourself Esperanto' gave me the ability to
write simple sentences about people and places.
   In a nutshell, the most common criticism of IL is still
valid: It is too difficult to quickly learn to use.
   If IL is as easy/difficult to learn as (say) Spanish, why
should one not learn Spanish instead? Both languages give
a good grounding in other Romance languages, which
Esperanto does far less well, but this gives us reason to
favor IL over EO only if our main goal is to get a grounding
in Romance languages.
[snipped]
JB:
>If I like Interlingua it is because I find it useful and rewarding.
   I find this surprising, but perhaps I shouldn't.
   The question seems to be this: Is it necessary or desirable to
have more than one IAL? Is it viable, or useful, to have
Interlingua spoken accross Romance-Europe, and another
Conlang (presumably Esperanto) spoken accross the same area,
and further afield?
   There seems to be an unspoken assumption among auxlangers
that, if there is to be international communication through IAL,
there can only be one Global-IAL. Is the world large enough
to justify, for instance:
* a pan-romance IAL (ie Interlingua) and
* a slavic IAL and
* a germanic IAL and
* an afican IAL and
* an indo-arynan IAL and
* esperanto ... ?

[much snipped]

   I'd like to end this post with two personal points:
   First, statements about whether or not Drs Gode and Gopsill
were or were not racists, or about whether Z was jewish
say nothing about IL and EO are 'good' by any criteria. I
now realise that my mail criticising IL by criticising it's
creator was missing the point. I was simply thinking
illogically.
   Second, if I've libled Alexander Gode, that upsets me a lot.
I am intolerant of Racism, and the allegation against Dr Gode
clouded my thoughts on Interlingua.

>kaj salutojn!
>
>Jay B.
   Mi esperas ke mi ne trovis malamiko hodiaux.


Kapitano Eglefino

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January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
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August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
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June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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May 2003, Week 3
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
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March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
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August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
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July 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 1
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May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
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March 2000, Week 1
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February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 3
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April 1999, Week 3
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
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January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
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June 1998, Week 3
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
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May 1998, Week 3
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May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
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October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
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June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 3
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February 1997, Week 1

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