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AUXLANG  April 1997, Week 3

AUXLANG April 1997, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Esperanto Passives

From:

Ken Caviness <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:31:14 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (68 lines)

At 12:11 PM 16.04.97 +0100, Julian Pardoe LADS LDN X8164 wrote:

>Ken summed up the siutaion about Eo passives pretty well,
>though to be fair he should have mentioned the slight
>embarras de richesse: one get's two chances to specify
>the tense and this can make things a little awkward.
>Should it be
>    Li estis vidata de mi
>    Li estas vidita de mi

But to further clarify, there is a slightly different nuance:

The verb endings -is/-as/-os indicate past/present/future,

the participle endings -ita/-ata/-ota similarly show if the action is
completed (past) / ongoing (present) / not yet started (future).  So:

Li estis vidata de mi = He was seen by me.
                      = He was (past) being seen (ongoing) by me.

Li estas vidita de mi = He has been seen by me.
                      = He is now in the felicitous state of having at one
                        time been seen by me.

[Sorry, that's _not_ in the original.  I got a little carried away!]

>I'd say that Ido improves things over Eo here.

Someone please tell us how Ido does this!

>As he says, it is important to note that many English passives
>shouldn't be translated as passives in Eo.  John Wells
>gives a good example in his dictionary:
>    The delegates were received by the mayor.
>    La delegitojn akceptis la urbesto.
>We use the passive because it throws a diferent emphasis
>on agent and patient.  (Pinker has a good example.)  In Eo
>the same affect can be achieved simply through word order.
>
>The one thing Ken misses out is the use of '-igh-' to
>form 'impersonal passives' (in some ways the passive
>equivalent of active sentences using 'oni'):
>    I was educated at a private school.
>    Mi edukighis en privata lernejo.

Aw, shucks!  I was trying to keep it simple!  But yes, Julian's right.
For those who aren't familiar with the Esperanto "-ig^-" it means
"to become", so "mi edukig^is" is literally "I became educated" and
it is used where in English we would say "I was educated".

So English passive can become in Esperanto:
  => simple active with changed word order
  => "estis/as/os" + participle + "de" + agent
  => "ig^is/as/os + adjective/participle
  => verb + "ig^" + endings
  => (less commonly) participle + verb endings "-is/as/os"

Is that the list?

Ken
  *------------------------*----------------------------------------*
  | Ken CAVINESS           |    ESPERANTO      La lingvo internacia |
  | [log in to unmask]  |                                        |
  |                        |  A language for   More info:           |
  | Physics at Southern    |  cross-cultural   [log in to unmask]      |
  | Adventist University   |  communication    (800) 828-5944       |
  *------------------------*----------------------------------------*

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December 1997, Week 5
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