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AUXLANG  April 1997, Week 3

AUXLANG April 1997, Week 3

Subject:

Re: The Delegation

From:

Ken Caviness <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:44:14 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (115 lines)

At 05:05 PM 15-04-97 BST, James Chandler wrote:

>Jens S. Larsen wrote:
>
>> > To quote [Jespersen] further would only strengthen the case.  My
>> > conscience is now clear.  I now feel I can confidently recommend the
>> > immediate conversion to Ido of all remaining Esperantists - you will be
>> > most wlecome in the movement.
>>
>> What about further conversion from Ido to Novial?  Can you recommend that
>> too?  Or do you recommend that everybody design their own new language?
>
>No.  Novial is not a significant and decisive improvement on Ido in the
>way that Ido is over Esp.  The language produced by the Delegation (which
>included Jespersen) is pretty much optimal, and the Committee would not=
 have
>recommended it to the world unless they were happy that it was.
>Novial achieves the same goals from a slightly different viewpoint.  I=
 would
>happily recommend to any Idist that he (if he had the time) might try to
>command both idioms, but not that he abandon Ido for Novial - that is
>certainly not justified.

James, I'm very glad to have your input in this forum.  Let me just=20
mention a couple of points:

1.  I'm glad to hear that your conscience is clear!  In any case, we who=20
learn planned languages are not responsible for the choices and actions=20
of those who invented and/or publicized them.

2.  In my view, there _is_ a "cloud" of sorts over the creation of Ido. =20
It was introduced anonymously by one of the members of the Delegation,=20
the Delegation originally proposed to select among tried and tested=20
IALs, later selected "Esperanto with modifications", and eventually=20
elaborated the decision to support a quite different language, namely=20
Ido.  The proponents of Ido told Esperantists that they were supporting=20
Esperanto.  The non-Esperantists were told that Esperantists would=20
flock to the modified language, etc., etc.  What version of the tale=20
_we_ believe today is perhaps not as important as the fact that _then_=20
members of the Delegation expressed strong disapproval of the actions=20
of the Idists and resigned from the Delegation.  The reduced pro-Ido=20
Delegation accepted Ido lock, stock and barrel, and then gave the=20
Esperanto organizations a short time to comment.  (I forget how long,=20
but in the early 1900's, the Esperanto community wouldn't even have=20
had time to look at the proposals, much less see [guess, prognosticate]=20
whether the modifications would turn out to be improvements in actual=20
practice.)

3.  Another disappointing factor is that the Delegation was able to=20
convince _no_ external authority or learned society to abide by their=20
decision and agree to sponsor its choice of an international language. =20
That was perhaps the end of the Delegation's usefulness right there. =20
This of course is the problem we all face:  the average human does not=20
share our view that an IAL would be beneficial for modern society.

In short, I cannot fault Zamenhof for "walking out" on the Delegation. =20
Proper procedure had not been followed, and aside from all that, he was=20
probably perfectly aware that even his complete support would not have=20
dislodged the Esperanto community from their language, in favor of Ido's=20
"improvements".  And as I have said elsewhere, it is not clear that Ido=20
is an improvement on Esperanto.  It certainly is more Romance-based, and=20
thus "more natural" for its early supporters (mostly French).

Scores of reforms to Esperanto have been proposed.  Not only has Ido=20
itself been modified over the years, but other projects reforming Ido=20
have appeared.  The plain truth is that people _can't_ agree on which=20
features are essential in an IAL.  Some features of Ido I like better=20
than Esperanto.  In other places I see it as a giant step backward. =20
All in all, it cannot be viewed as "a significant and decisive=20
improvement".

Note that I am speaking strictly of the features of the language, no=20
longer referring to the dead past!  Since now we have established that=20
some unfortunate things happened in the past (as I've said before, no=20
doubt faults on all sides!), perhaps we can get back to discussing the=20
strengths of the various IALs.

Perhaps Novial is an improvement over Ido.  As Bruce Gilson has pointed=20
out, Jespersen's goal was to achieve great regularity as well as a=20
high degree of naturalness.  To what extent this is possible, and to=20
what extent he succeeded, is unclear to me.  I'm trying to learn more! =20
But certainly the goal is laudable. =20

Maybe "it's not what you know, but whom you know", as the saying goes. =20
If the European Union or the UN could be convinced to support an IAL,=20
_any_ IAL, then perhaps that IAL could gain enough adherents to become=20
truly and unarguably useful world-wide.  But it hasn't happened yet. =20
And until that (or some other miracle) occurs, Esperanto is our best=20
hope.  Pun intended!  ;-) =20

Yes, I'm impressed that Ido has a currently published periodical, a=20
book service, and now (thank you, James!) a presence on the web.  I=20
very much appreciate the information that Paolo Castellina and others
have made available about Interlingua.  I'm happy that we now have=20
some online information about Novial (one of the minor sites is mine!),=20
and we recently saw some material on Glosa.  My thanks to the brave=20
Volap=FCkists who have put up several sites.  I find it all very=20
interesting.  These languages haven't "failed", but they've not=20
"succeeded" to the extent that Esperanto has.  Hundreds of current=20
periodicals, active clubs and societies scattered all over the world,=20
over thirty thousand publications.  Friends, that's a significant=20
success.  Zamenhof (and the Esperanto movement since his time) must=20
have done something right.

Salutojn al ^ciuj!

Ken
  *------------------------*----------------------------------------*
  | Ken CAVINESS           |    ESPERANTO      La lingvo internacia |
  | [log in to unmask]  |                                        |
  |                        |  A language for   More info:           |
  | Physics at Southern    |  cross-cultural   [log in to unmask]      |
  | Adventist University   |  communication    1-800-ESPERANTO      |
  *------------------------*----------------------------------------*

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