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AUXLANG  October 1997, Week 2

AUXLANG October 1997, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Reductive Grammar

From:

Don Blaheta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:27:37 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (77 lines)

Quoth Paul Dennett:
> Kapitano Eglefino wrote:
> > Bai hund nigr du cxas rapid na kat blank
>
> You have obviously made an assumption somewhere that adjectives should
> follow the head noun.

Yes, I prefer that this assumption be made (or the reverse, that
adjectives precede the nouns). It makes it more readable (ok, to _me_
it does anyway) to be able to expect one or the other... Note that
I'm _not_ saying it has to be just like English, as long as it's
_predictably_ not like English.

> To cover James Chandler's objection on tense and number all you need do,
> of course, is throw in an adverb phrase to cover the tense and a
> quantifier for number:
>
> Bai hund nigr du cxas rapid na mult kat blank jam.

Eh? You appear to be placing the adverb at the end of the sentence
here... I _really like_ the idea of grouping all modifiers with their
head, it makes it oh-so-much-easier to parse it. Adverbs which modify
adjectives would, of course, follow those adjectives, so this wouldn't
solve the PLGS (pretty little girls' school--read the FAQ) problem,
but it _would_ solve the ambiguity in e.g. the sentence "Edward fought
the knight with the sword": one version would translate as (pseudo)
        Bai Edward du did fight with sword na knight
and the other as
        Bai Edward du did fight na knight with sword

> Incidentally are 'bai', 'du' and 'na' a priori or from any
> particular language?

I'm guessing "na" because of the Esperanto suggested form, and "bai"
and "du" from English "by" and "do".

> > To my mind, the final sentence is easy to parse, and has a grammar
> > far easier to learn AND USE even than Esperanto. The stems are even
> > still largely recognizable as derived from natlangs.
>
> I agree, but I don't think I would use Esperanto as a base. With, say,
> Interlingua as a base you have prettier words (scientific, eh?) which are
> easier to say and just as recognisable.

...to WENSA speakers...

> You'd be surprised what people would object to round here! It seems to me
> that you have to be a bit careful with tense and number distinction. I
> still haven't quite made up my mind about how to deal with these.
> Sometimes number is obvious from context, but what about when it isn't?

Then you have to mark it, or ignore it. *shrug*

> I'm leaning towards the view that unmarked NP's should be regarded as
> plural, and that the singular should be indicated by the numeral for

Alternatively, unmarked NP's could be just that--unmarked.

> 'one'. The options for tense seem to be tense/aspect markers before the
> head verb as opposed to looser adverb phrases. What do you think?

_If_ you want a default, and especially if your target is WENSA or (to
a lesser degree) ENANSA speakers, plural would probably be better
since the singular would frequently be marked by article.

> Verbal preposition is a great idea (I dunno whether it's really a
> preposition, though). I have one as well - two actually: 'Do' for
> affirmative, 'No' for negative clauses. 'Do' and 'No' also serve for
> 'Yes' and 'No'.

That's a really dangerous minimal pair... /d/ is _very close_ to /n/,
especially when the speaker has a cold. :)

--
-=-=-=-Don [log in to unmask]@aol.com-=-=-=-
Vote anarchist!

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