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AUXLANG  January 1998, Week 3

AUXLANG January 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Prejudice/racism

From:

"Bruce R. Gilson" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:19:06 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

B Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
 
>At 17:18 -0800 on 18.1.1998, Bruce R. Gilson wrote:
 
>[Quoting me (BPJ), possibly by way of Ray Brown:]
>> >  ... such blatant exclusion of Slavs seems to me at best
>> >prejudice, at worst just plain racism.
 
>> For the record, my mother's native languages were Russian and Yiddish. My
>> father spoke Russian before he ever learned English. Do I have an apology?
 
>For what?  I speak Swedish as my L1, but I don't consider myself a Swede in
>the ethnical sense (being a rather even mix on one side of Norwegian and
>Dutch on the other Ukrainian, Polish, German and whatever has passed
>through the region between the Vistula and the Don -- FYI family tradition
>has it that the father of my grandfather's grandmother was a
>force-converted Jewish man; luckily Hitler's cohorts didn't find this out,
>so that only a great-uncle who was an active member of the Social Democrat
>resistance fell victim to them.  I see no reason not to take pride in every
>aspect of my mixed heritage!)
 
>Please remember that your original wording was:
 
>> (Don't bring up Slavs; the target
>> population is speakers of Western-European-origin languages)
 
>As it stands your statement has nothing to do with _Slavic languages_, the
>inclusion or exclusion of vocabulary or structures of these languages, from
>a pan-European IAL.  What you do is that you expressly deny _the Slavs_
>(that is _the Slavic peoples_) any relevancy as part of the target
>population for a Euro-IAL.  I fail to read any other meaning into your
>statement otherwise than this: "The Slavic peoples are irrelevant; only the
>peoples speaking languages that have developed in Western Europe merit
>consideration as the target population of an IAL.  (And hence it is only
>secondarily that their pronunciation habits are to be considered
>irrelevant)".  Maybe it could be inferred that you would consider the Slavs
>worthy of consideration if and only if they changed over to one or more
>"Western-European-origin languages".  That is IMO not a shade better than
>Hitlers statement that the Czechs could be allowed to continue in existance
>-- if they consented to convert themselves into German-speaking "Bohemians".
 
>Note that I do _not_ say that you are a racist, neither do I compare you to
>Hitler (I would never compare anybody but genocidal dictators or
>self-acclaimed Nazis to him!), I only say that as they stand your words do
>indeed imply a seriously prejudiced or even racist view of Slavic people.
>Since also at least one native speaker of English (Ray Brown) reads your
>wording the same way as I do not have any reason to believe that any faulty
>understanding on my part be to blame.  Perhaps you would better understand
>my reaction to your words if I rephrase them.  Suppose that someone wanted
>to say "I don't think Yiddish should be considered in an European-IAL; it
>is probably impossible to include any Hebrew vocabulary in a meaningful
>way", but instead he said: "Don't bring up Jews; the target population is
>speakers of Western-European-origin languages".  I'm sure such a wording
>would throw you into a tirade of dismay, would it not?
 
But, read in the context of my other posts, it should be clear that, in my
opinion, the _reason_ "the target population is speakers of Western-European-
-origin languages" is that "it is probably impossible to include any [Slavic]
vocabulary in a meaningful way." To go into more detail would have been, in
that post, have been a digression that would have broken the flow of the
discussion.
 
Am I to assume that nobody who reads a post of mine has ever read any other
previous post? I have always assumed that except for a few relatively new
members, my positions are well enough known in general that I only need to
make the specific points that relate to the post I'm responding to.
 
Must I prefix _every_ post with a statement to the effect that I feel that,
for practical purposes, it is impossible to include more than a few linguistic
families in one IAL, and then go into further detail showing in what respects
I feel I have to draw the boundaries, citing the same points over and over? I
would be making 10,000 line posts every time.
 
                                Bruce R. Gilson
                                email: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
                                IRC: EZ-as-pi
                                WWW: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3141
                                (for language stuff: add /langpage.html)

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