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AUXLANG  January 1998, Week 5

AUXLANG January 1998, Week 5

Subject:

Revisiting Speedwords Again

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:37:41 -0700

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--------------9A7C54E7D7AC88BF19F99570
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> So, this is basically what Dutton means, and
> also, the idea of word or idea-compounds.
> Hope this answers your question a little more.
>
Paul Bartlett wrote:
 
> I supposed that this is more or less what was
> meant. However, I am of the opinion (or
> school) that the grammar of a conIAL needs to
> be specified somewhere, and not just assumed.
> Those who have different native language
> habits might otherwise put things together in
> other orders from different assumptions.
>
> This has been one of my beefs with Glosa. The
> principals seem to refuse to publish a grammar,
> relying instead on paradigmatic sentences.
> Unfortunately, these paradigmatic sentences are
> presented divorced from a context, so
> ambiguities in usage remain. It is true that
> children do not (usally, anyway) learn their
> native languages out of a grammar textbook.
> But neither do they learn them in a context-free
> situation with no feedback, as is the case with
> bare paradigmatic sentences, as in the Glosa
> approach.
>
I have a "new" used copy of the 1943 Interglossa. Hogben seems to
me quite thorough in explaining Interglossa. I have not seen any
of the Glosa publications, except some basic info on the net, so
I can't speak to what they have published in their other works.
 
However, I might mention, Hogben mentions Speedwords,
surprisingly, in the 1943 book Interglossa. I say surprisingly
because Speedwords first text book says it was also published in
1943. Anyway, Hogben knew of Speedwords and again spoke highly of
it and called it "ingenious" as have others.
 
Just because the grammar of Speedwords is simple does not mean
its working has not, or is not being described with plenty of
examples. In fact, Dutton published the main textbook, a
supplement and a companion book to the text plus a dictionary.
And a further 1,000 most used words practice dictation book with
a separate Speedwords key. And, the Teach Yourself Dutton
Speedwords books were publishe in three separate editions up
through the early 70's. And, I am presently writing a series of
lessons on Speedwords and its grammar, etc. So, it is not a guess
at the grammar and usage of Speedwords and hope for the best at
all. It is thoroughly explained, it is simple and it works
charmingly!! In fact, I notice something different about it that
pleases me. No where can I find Dutton criticising, tearing down,
or arguing against other IAL's. He just presents the strengths of
Speedwords and let's it stand on its own. Yet, Hogben, Foat, G.
B. Shaw, and others always seem to speak highly of Speedwords
while at the same time they criticize other IAL's. The only
criticism I have seen anywhere against Speedwords has been on
this list. And to me, those criticisms have been small when
compared to the actual benefits of Speedwords. Interestingly,
Hogben seems to want Interglossa to be used in a similar way when
he writes of it on the pages where he mentions Speedwords. He
even mentions how Interglossa words can be abreviated in a
similar fashion. In fact, twice he calls Speedwords  "ingenious".
In Interglossa and in Loom of Language.
I think Speedwords is a very powerful tool that many overlook and
don't give due credit because they see the word "shorthand"
attached to it. I get the feeling some think this means
Speedwords is a toy, or an IAL that is not very complete.
Topics in the textbook, for example, cover verbs, nouns, past,
present future, etc. just as does any other grammar I have ever
seen. And, those on my lesson list are slowly but surely
receiving all this information plus new information that was not
in the textbook. And, things that were left out of the textbook
revisions are being readded where they were left out for space.
Remember, these texts were written during the war when paper was
not as plentiful as today.
 
And, I hope my additional post quoting from a Chinese language
book helped.
 
Al l sue,
Bob
 
 
--------------9A7C54E7D7AC88BF19F99570
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
<HTML>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>So, this is basically what Dutton means, and
also, the idea of word or idea-compounds.&nbsp;
Hope this answers your question a little more.
</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Paul Bartlett wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>
I supposed that this is more or less what was
meant. However, I am of the opinion (or
school) that the grammar of a conIAL needs to
be specified somewhere, and not just assumed.
Those who have different native language
habits might otherwise put things together in
other orders from different assumptions.
 
This has been one of my beefs with Glosa. The
principals seem to refuse to publish a grammar,
relying instead on paradigmatic sentences.
Unfortunately, these paradigmatic sentences are
presented divorced from a context, so
ambiguities in usage remain. It is true that
children do not (usally, anyway) learn their
native languages out of a grammar textbook.
But neither do they learn them in a context-free
situation with no feedback, as is the case with
bare paradigmatic sentences, as in the Glosa
approach.</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
I have a "new" used copy of the 1943 Interglossa. Hogben seems to me quite
thorough in explaining Interglossa. I have not seen any of the Glosa publications,
except some basic info on the net, so I can't speak to what they have published
in their other works.
 
<P>However, I might mention, Hogben mentions Speedwords, surprisingly,
in the 1943 book Interglossa. I say surprisingly because Speedwords first
text book says it was also published in 1943. Anyway, Hogben knew of Speedwords
and again spoke highly of it and called it "ingenious" as have others.
 
<P>Just because the grammar of Speedwords is simple does not mean its working
has not, or is not being described with plenty of examples. In fact, Dutton
published the main textbook, a supplement and a companion book to the text
plus a dictionary. And a further 1,000 most used words practice dictation
book with a separate Speedwords key. And, the Teach Yourself Dutton Speedwords
books were publishe in three separate editions up through the early 70's.
And, I am presently writing a series of lessons on Speedwords and its grammar,
etc. So, it is not a guess at the grammar and usage of Speedwords and hope
for the best at all. It is thoroughly explained, it is simple and it works
charmingly!! In fact, I notice something different about it that pleases
me. No where can I find Dutton criticising, tearing down, or arguing against
other IAL's. He just presents the strengths of Speedwords and let's it
stand on its own. Yet, Hogben, Foat, G. B. Shaw, and others always seem
to speak highly of Speedwords while at the same time they criticize other
IAL's. The only criticism I have seen anywhere against Speedwords has been
on this list. And to me, those criticisms have been small when compared
to the actual benefits of Speedwords. Interestingly, Hogben seems to want
Interglossa to be used in a similar way when he writes of it on the pages
where he mentions Speedwords. He even mentions how Interglossa words can
be abreviated in a similar fashion. In fact, twice he calls Speedwords&nbsp;
"ingenious". In Interglossa and in Loom of Language.
<BR>I think Speedwords is a very powerful tool that many overlook and don't
give due credit because they see the word "shorthand" attached to it. I
get the feeling some think this means Speedwords is a toy, or an IAL that
is not very complete.
<BR>Topics in the textbook, for example, cover verbs, nouns, past, present
future, etc. just as does any other grammar I have ever seen. And, those
on my lesson list are slowly but surely receiving all this information
plus new information that was not in the textbook. And, things that were
left out of the textbook revisions are being readded where they were left
out for space. Remember, these texts were written during the war when paper
was not as plentiful as today.
 
<P>And, I hope my additional post quoting from a Chinese language book
helped.
 
<P>Al l sue,
<BR>Bob
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>
 
--------------9A7C54E7D7AC88BF19F99570--

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