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AUXLANG  January 1998, Week 5

AUXLANG January 1998, Week 5

Subject:

Re: LE MANIFESTO DEL INTERLINGUA PRO LE UE

From:

Kjell Rehnström <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:22:39 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (195 lines)

>On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:28:41 +0200, Allan Kiviaho
><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>>                [Allan 980127]
>>Almost all Europeans think that Italian and Spanish are very beautiful
>>languages. I gladly admit that their soundings are more beautiful than
>
>
>Oh, thanks. We spanish people aren't aquainted of that. And for us,
>Spanish is not beautiful nor ugly. As you can supose, it is simply
>neutral for us.
>
>
 
>>                [Allan 980127]
>>The point is that very many Europeans detest strongly the idea that an
>>external language, English, would take hegemony in Europe. Look the
>>movement presided by Otto von Habsburg, for instance.
>
>Who is Otto von Habsburg?
Snipped (
>
>Let's sing in Italian - and
>>Interlinguan ...
>
>Well, I must say that Italian (though it sounds well) is not a very
>suitable language for music. It has very few acute words (that is,
>words stressed on last sylable) which are a need on a lot of musical
>phrases' endings. On the other hand, I think that arts would be go on
>being expressed on national languages primarly, though it would appear
>(of course) an arising auxlang literature/music.
>
        [Kjell 980128]
 I don't think one can say that one language is more beautiful than
ahother. In this case as in so many others beauty is in the ear of the
listener.
 
>>                [Allan 980117]
>>>I think that every European should have a full fluency
>>>in at least three languages: The native language of
>>>the corresponding country, Interlingua and English.
>
>I think that every European should have a full fluency
>in at least two languages: The native language of
>the corresponding country, auxlang (whichever it be), and in some
>cases the language of the region in which they live (for example, in
>northwest of Spain, where I live, there is a regional language called
>Galician, with a Spanish-Portuguese look, and it is spoken as well as
>Spanish here).
>On third (or fourth) place, English should also be spoken by every
>Europeans, but I think that in this case it wouldn't have to be
>fluently.
 
        [Kjell 980128]
Reality makes it often the other way round. We will know English first,
because it is the first foreign language. Then we might know the Second
foreign Language and then some other language. As you may see in other
postings in this list it is not always very rewarding interesting oneself
in lesser world languages.
 
E.g. when I have visited Finland I have sometimes met people who speak much
better English than Swedish, the second official language of Finland, and
as school authorities in Sweden did not have Finnish at the schools I was
attending, English would do, and that was and is OK with me. An
international language like Interlingua would be still better, but you
can't have everything, can you!
 
By the way, do you speak Gallego yourself. Are you a native speaker of it.
Are people who come to your part of the country interested in trying to
speak Gallego and how is that met. Are people happy with Gallego-speaking
madrile=F1os or do they get mad at them for the mistakes they are making?
 
>
>>                [Allan 980127]
>>For the simple reason that Interlingua is - as I believe - the best
>>choice for the common language for Europe. It is also the best candidate
>>for being accepted in all countries in Europe. The Romance countries
>
>Well, I cannot agree with you here. I think the best choice for Europe
>would be an easy to use actively language (not only passively), and at
>this respect I think that Interlingua is for non-poliglot
>north-europeans and east-europeans a hardly overrulable lang.
>
>AND, if we are going to adopt an auxiliary language, which undoubtly
>would become the world auxiliary language later, we ought to think
>about its easyness for non-occidentals. In this respect, I think that
>schematic languages (Ido, Eo) are the only ones overrulable for the
>majority of Asian and African people. Probably, Interlingua would be
>for them almost as difficult as English. At least, you must accept
>that I-a is a very unneutral language outside Occident.
>
>>    This is no mere phantasy. In a recent voting in Europarliament some
>>17-18 % of the MP's already voted FOR an auxlang. It was for Esperanto,
>>because it was the only auxlang presented to them.
>
>Really? I wasn't acquainted of any for-auxlang votation on the
>european parlamient. Could you enlarge this information?
>
>>    But James and other Gentlemen in the AUXLANG group! Let's think
>>about a popular referendum for an auxlang in all countries in Europe.
>>Which will the peoples vote for? For a constructed language like
>>Esperanto with its ugly diacritic signs and still uglier "kaj", "jes",
>>-aj, -ajn, -oj, -ojn etc?
>
>Well, why not Ido, then?
>
>Or for a natural language, Interlingua, which
>>sounds and tastes Latin and Romance, like Italian or Spanish but which
>
>I accept that Interlingua would have more posibilities than any other
>auxlang in a popular referendum, but it's obvious that that doesn't
>make it the "best suitable auxlang for Europe". In fact, I-a is not
>the prefered auxlang by people who knows auxlangs (that is
>auxlangers).
 
        [Kjell 980128]
In a referendum people would vote for Esperanto for that is the only
language they know about. One has to show what interlingua looks like,
making them trying to learn it or see if they can learn Esperanto and what
works the best. This is the only way. To let the languages to the
politicians is "death in the cauldron".
 
Allan:
>>sounds still more beautiful than Italian and Spanish becaused it is
>>purged from the peculiarities of those natlangs, as, for example, the
>>Spanish "lisping" sounds.
 
        Marco
>Hey, whats the matter with our lisping sounds? ;-)
>They also exist in English (as th in thousand, thick, etc).
>Well, I know they are not too popular in other languages, but in fact,
>the most of Spanish-speaking people (that is south-american) does use
>"s" sound instead of "th" sound wherever it is.
 
        [Kjell 980128]
Le majoritate de personas hispanoparlante que io cognosce veni de
Iberoamerica, e illes parla le espaniol sin le sonos in z.
 
Marco
>By the way, I have to say that for me (as a spanish man), Interlingua
>has an aspect which reminds a kind of Spanish deformation with some of
>Italian and French.
 
 
>>                [Allan 980127]
>>Hah, after studying some 10 years English language and literature my
>>daughter and her boy-friend were extremely sceptical at my advocating
>>the
>>Interlingua.
>
>It'd became "10 years of work for nothing", wouldn't it?
>
>But, appart of them, is it not a bit strange that there is so little
>people interested on the auxlang solution?
>
>
>>                SUMMARY
>>Perhaps it is time to cease plodding with various odd conlangs and unite
>>the efforts for introducing Interlingua or a still more latinized
>>Interlingua as a common auxlang in Europe. The time is ripe just now
>>when a new group of countries are going to join the EU and the Babel of
>>languages in EU is becoming more and more messy! What's the target of
>>our actions? The major political parties in the member countries of the
>>EU! There is the real power.
>
>Maybe you're right. But perhaps you should abandon your partisan
>actitude with I-a and remember that we are to fight out there for an
>auxlang adoption, not for our personal favourite auxlang. Perhaps I
>won't convince you that Ido is better than I-a, nor viceversa, but we
>should not forget we are on the same party.
>
        [Kjell 980128]
I am not. I can imagine two candidates for an auxiliary language that I
could vote for, and that is
 
1. Interlingua (many people can already understand it, not only those who
are interested. That means that if you have learnt to use Interlingua, then
EU officials can understand you. If they can't we have got to see to it
that they get another job...
 
2. The compromise between Novial and Occidental as presented in the
"Gramatike interlingual" by Valter Ahlstedt. I am copying the text and it
is easy to read. There are some points that I am a little bit uncertain
about, but on the whole it is the best schematic aposteriori language I
have seen as far as I have got in the "gramatike".
 
 
 
Kjell [log in to unmask]
Kjell Rehnstroem
Vaenortsgatan 87
S-752 64  UPPSALA
Suedia - Sweden

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