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AUXLANG  February 1998, Week 4

AUXLANG February 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Practice the language you believe in

From:

"Bruce R. Gilson" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:07:32 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

Martin Lavallie wrote:
 
>Dear friends,
 
>Kjell said amongst the hundred letters I tried to read that Novialists should practice
>their language instead of speaking about it in English.
 
>That idea, even though it would oblige me to learn some Novial to be able to understand
>written texts, is very good.
 
I think that there is no disagreement on the issue of  _whether_ we should
write in Novial (or rather, pace those who don't want us calling it by that
name, in Group Novial.)
 
The disagreement is about when it is proper to do so.
 
While discussing the fine points of the changes we intend to make, it is better
to use a language we all are fluent in, namwely English. Especially since there
is neither a grammar (except for a summary of accepted decisions) nor a dic-
tionare (other than an incomplete one) online.
 
Once the grammar and dictionary are available, we will be using the language
much more.
 
There is, especially in a group project, a need to express subtle distinctions.
These cannot yet be expressed _in_ GN, because one of the points under discus-
sion is _how_ to do so. We do not, as Zamenhof did, have anyone with the power
to decide on the precise distinction between (in GN) -ione and -nse words. So
if I were using GN and not Eng., I could use a word in one of those endings and
be misunderstood because the other person makes a different distinction. As
more and more group decisions are made, this problem becomes less and less
acute. We _are_ already using the language to some extent. The weekly status
reports, for example, are entirely in GN. Some of the ongoing discussion is
as well.
 
>Zamenhof for instance practiced his language before publishing it in 1887.  2 or
>3 versions were necessary before it came up in the world.
 
We don't have quite the same situation. Every new decision produces a slightly
new version, but not a majorly new one. And our decisions are made by vote, not
by fiat.
 
>Also Ido for some years in the beginning of the century was in a very fluid state.
> The people who wanted to make changes used Ido in Progreso.  At
 
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/8009/Listo.html
 
>are some pages in "old" Ido
 
>like
 
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/8009/Couturat1.html
>http://members.tripod.com/~Lavaleo/Schleyer.html
 
But the reason they _could_ use Ido in Progreso is that Beaufront's grammar
had already appeared. We haven't reached that point. The Delegation did not
receive the Ido proposal _in_ Ido.
 
(Weferling _did_ produce his standard grammars _in_ Intal. At least 21 different
versions!)
 
>Those who speaks about a language not even trying to make literature in it will see
>their efforts simply vanished.  I am not interested in reading about Novial papers
>in English for ceaseless reforms.
 
When the language is issued to the public in _defined_ form, we will produce
texts in it. Now is hardly the time. The two Bible translations I've produced
are already obsolete, and it's hardly two months since I produced them.
 
>So James is quite right in translating novels in Novial. That's the first step for
>stabilisation of the language.  The same way has been used by esperanto, Ido and
>Interlingua.
 
No, Interlingua was mostly used for _scientific_ material, not novels. I don't
want to translate novels, because I don't _read_ novels, even in English! I
have a great distaste for works of fiction, in any language. This does not mean
that _nobody_ can produce GN translations of novels, but only that _I_ will not
do so. And I _have_ already produced some Bible translations (Psalm 23 and
Isaiah 2:4), but clearly they will need to be reworked as the language changes.
 
And I do not think _any_ translations appeared into Esperanto, Ido, or Inter-
lingua before a grammar or dictionary appeared. I think there is a question of
timing here. We are talking about a language _under_development_: like E-o
in the years before 1887, or Interlingua in 1948.
 
>Play in your little wordly world if you do not want to listen.
 
If you were presenting this advice _after_ the dictionary and grammar had been
publicly issued, it would be sound. Those people, like Kjell, who have a well-
defined language to propagate have the luxury of grammars and dictionaries to
consult and an agreed-upon meaning for the words that they use. We do not.
Be aware that our situation is different.
 
>Meanwhile others may have a more interesting time speaking in an international language
>speaking about other things than international languages in a certain national language
>(French before, English for now).
 
You are not trying to _develop_ an IAL. That's the difference.
 
                                Bruce R. Gilson
                                email: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
                                IRC: EZ-as-pi
                                WWW: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3141
                                (for language stuff: add /langpage.html)

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