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AUXLANG  February 1998, Week 4

AUXLANG February 1998, Week 4

Subject:

Re: infinitive-speak (was: Novial Reform Proposal) (fwd)

From:

James Chandler <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:35:09 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

Ray Brown skripted:
 
> The N98 group haven't got _strict_ PoS marking
> by a long way.  There, e.g., is no substantive marking as such.  Instead
> they have all the vowels except -i.
 
An important point, I think.  They have -e, -a, -o, -u, -um, in fact.
 
> -R does not mark the ground form in N98.  It marks the present active
> infinitive, the present active indicate, and the active imperative ONLY.
> The active preterite suffix, e.g. is added to the something different, cf.
> me skripter / me skripted.
>
> The ground form is skripte-.
 
Well, in N28 there were ground forms in -a, but the -a got lost before
certain suffixes: BAKA -> BAKERE, though the -a was part of the ground
form.  But maybe I should let them explain what happens in their
language.
 
> We have exactly the same sort of thing as with the nouns: FLEXION.  Both -R
> and -D are verb markers; but, as with the single vowels marking nouns, the
> two verb markers have at least one other function - in the case of -R,
> _three_ other functions.
>
> (I know not all the N98 group would explain this way, but I'm darned if I
> see any other _logical_ explanation.)
 
The -(e)d is a flexion, certainly.  But I'm not sure they intend -r to
be a flexion.  Best let them explain though.
 
> >The question of a special infinitive marker is then secondary.
>
> Not if you are going to have _STRICT_ PoS markers.  IMO Esperanto & Ido do
> this much better than any of the so-called Novial reforms I've seen.
 
I don't understand this point.  Ido has what I would call strict POS
marking, but there is a special infinitive in -ar (-ir, -or).  But I
would say I prefer the Ido system to the N98 one with its ubiquitous
-R.
 
> >First
> >you have to decide whether you want one at all (BPJ seems to have
> >decided against it), and if you do you clearly have a choice of forms.
> >-r is good, but it means a different stress in the infinitive to in
> >the ground form, which non-Romance speakers find hard to get used to.
>
> Evidence?  I don't find anything hard about it.
 
I myself find it hard to remember to stress the Ido infinitive on the
last syllable.  The president of ULI (Ido) recently wrote to me that
he thought a good reform of Ido would be that infinitives be stressed
on the penultimate syllable like the present tense (he is a German).
 
> >TU is good if you don't want a concrete ending in -u.  If TU is ruled
> >out by being a demons. pronoun, I would think -r is the best option.
>
> There is an even more fundamental question.  Do you want an infinitive at
> all?  Albanian, Romanian & modern Greek all get along quite happily without
> one.
 
As I said above, there is that choice to be made.  J ditched the special
marker in 1937.
 
James Chandler
[log in to unmask]

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