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AUXLANG  March 1998, Week 1

AUXLANG March 1998, Week 1

Subject:

Re: James' Project to Reform Novial (fwd)

From:

"Raymond A. Brown" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:40:47 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

At 17:20 1/3/98, James Chandler wrote:
>Marcos skripted:
[....]
>> - I don't think the inclusion of the sound /z/ is a good idea at all.
>> It's difficult to pronounce for S-speakers, and possibly for many
>> other people. This is like esperanto H^. It's easy for me to
>> pronounce, but I wouldn't include it in any IAL simply cause there is
>> a lot of people who has trouble with it.
>
>As J's story Stranja Sonjo makes clear, we cannot hope to avoid all sound
>values that are problematic for one or more nations.  My system will be
>simpler than Ido and Esp phonetically, though I concede that [z] is one
>more thing for S speakers to learn.
 
...and Scandinavians.
 
>We have to achieve a balance.
>Eliminating [z] causes more problems than it solves, in my view.  S speakers
>have the advantage in my scheme, on the other hand, that all their words
>which have [s] will predictably have [s] in my scheme as well.  This is a
>great improvement on Esp and Ido.  Each group has to make sacrifices, but
>on the whole we achieve the highest level of recognizability, familiarity
>and phonetic facility for the greatest number.
 
...which is precisely what your scheme will _not_ do, at least as far as
phonetic facility is concerned.
 
I assume in the above you mean /z/ and /s/ and not [z] and [s], since
Jespersen never eliminated the sound [z] only the morpheme [z].  I take the
above to mean that wherever {s} is written in Spanish it will appear as {s}
and be pronounced [s] (I mean [s]) in all environments.  This will mean
that, e.g. French & English speakers will have to learn get used to /s/ in
all these words where, more of often than not they use /z/.  It should be
remembered that /z/ is far more often written as {s} in English & French
than it is with the much less common {z}.
 
The German & Italian must get out of the habit of pronouncing {s} as either
[s] or [z] according to position and environment and of pronouncing {z} as
[ts] (or, not uncommonly for the Italian, [dz]).
 
Each group will indeed have to make sacrifices since, as far as I can see,
your scheme conforms to the practice of no GR group.  The small (and IMO
questionable) gain in familiarity of _written_ recognition will, I fear, be
greatly offset by the increased phonetic difficulties & confusion.
 
[......]
>> I simply go with the natural -r.
>
>All very well if you have no -u ending, but I can't have -ur.  I would have
>to take -uer or -uar, which is the first difficulty.
 
What's wrong with -uer if you don't like -ur.
In Novial the present participle is -ent after -i- and -u-, one could have
something similar for the infinitive.
 
>The second is the
>necessary stress shift in the infinitive, which is essential for Romance
>speakers, but difficult for everyone else.
 
How is it difficult?  I've never had the slightest difficulty; and I refuse
to think I'm unique.
 
>Surely TU is less problematic overall?
 
I don't see it.
 
[........]
>I'm hesitant about allowing productive use of this suffix.  I would like
>to use it to bring new words into the language, like KOMPUTATORE.
 
Meaning a 'computer' I asume - but based on what source language? The
French is 'ordinateur' & the Spanish 'ordenador'.
 
Ray.
 
 
 
=======================================================
Written in Net English
Humor not necessarily marked
No intentional misreprsentation of another's statements
 
Gerasko d'aei polla didaskomenos (SOLON)
=======================================================

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December 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 1

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