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AUXLANG  March 1998, Week 1

AUXLANG March 1998, Week 1

Subject:

Re: James' Project to Reform Novial (fwd)

From:

James Chandler <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:54:56 GMT

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (71 lines)

Marcos skripted:
 
> Ok, why don't you just take Z as a letter but not as a sound. This is
> the easiest solution for the greatest number.
 
This might mean two things: a) have only [s] but allow it to be written
S.  This would mean saying [s]ero, [s]one, for E zero, zone, which is not
justifiable.
b) have [s]/[z] as one phoneme, but allow this to be written either S or
Z.  I don't think it's hard to see that this would be a huge embarras de
richesse, and cause a fantastic amount of hesitation, confusion and chaos.
 
> We distinguish between [b] and
> >[v]: would Ray also be unable to take seriously any IAL which retained
> >that distinction?
>
> The point is that /v/ is not difficult sound for us (in fact, some
> Spaniards pronounce it on speech). No sound of Jespersen's Novial is
> difficult for a Spanish. /z/ would be.
 
I thought it was [b] that was hard for you to produce.  I was under the
impression that in the mouths of many Spanish speakers, there was little
or no distinction between how B and V are pronounced.
 
> >I have read through pretty much the whole of 27 issues of N-iste, and I
> >must say I found the various conventions for the values of S to be one =
> of
> >the most distracting things in the whole experience.  A lot of the time
> >I hesitated as to how to read S: as [s] or [z].  In words which in E =
> have
> >[z], I fumbled every time, first pronouncing with the more usual [s], =
> then
> >having to correct myself and pronounce [z] instead. =20
>
> Why? I thought J gave S the sound /s/ always, with /z/ just as a
> secondary pronunciation. So you shouldn't hesitate on pronouncing S
> always as /s/. :-?
 
One of the points of making [s]/[z] one phoneme, is that EFI speakers can
pronounce S as [z] between vowels where they naturally would in their own
language.  When I come across PROPOSI and say it with [s] because I'm
following the more usual value of S, I then stop and hesitate, because I
know it sounds wrong and also know I am allowed to say [z].  It is really
simpler for me just to say [s] and carry on.
 
> >-(e)r seems to have more problems than TU.  Why do Romance langs often =
> need
> >to supplement -r with a preposition: because the ending is not strong
> >enough?  Best to follow E here.
>
> Wait a minute! The preposition there is not a need, it's just that
> some verbs get "a" when a infinitive follows, some not. There is no
> reason for it. Just a matter of tradition. BTW, is really "to" a
> marker of infinitive in English? Or just a preposition?:
> I want to dance: want to          dance (to=3Dprep.)
>                 want             to dance (to=3Dinf.mark.)=20
>
> But it seems "to" is more adhered to want that to dance, cause we
> have: I don't want to. Right?
 
AFAIK, "to" now has two clearly separate roles in E, as a preposition and
as an infinitive marker.  "to" started out as just a preposition, but
presumably was prefixed illogically to the infinitive in order to
strengthen it.
What you say is a matter of tradition, I see as something which has
grown up because of a real need in the language.  Most human language is
tradition, if your definition is to be applied to it.
 
James Chandler
[log in to unmask]

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December 1997, Week 5
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