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AUXLANG  March 1998, Week 5

AUXLANG March 1998, Week 5

Subject:

Re: James' project

From:

Robin Gaskell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 29 Mar 1998 03:44:54 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

At 07:29 PM 3/28/98 -0800, Bruce Gilson wrote:
>James Chandler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>As I have made quite a number of comments on this list about the
>>"politics" of Bruce's project,   [  ......  ]
>
>Let me make this clear. I think it was quite good for James to put forth his
>project in outline form on Auxlang. What I found improper was his using
Auxlang
>as we use the NRG list,    [  ........  ]  (in which case he should get his
>own mailing list).
>
*       Too many cooks ... was the feeling I got from the Novial flux.
 
>>But I am really once again disappointed by Bruce's attitude.  He seems
>>to think it's N98 or bust.  [  ...  ]  It is all very commercial, like
>>we're two multinationals trying to sink each other in a price war or
>>something similar.
>
*       To the outsider, the whole competitveness of the American dream - from
Bill Gates down - is a bit off-putting.
 
>James is totally misunderstanding me if he thinks my attitude is "it's N98 or
>bust." I _do_ see our two projects as competing. I think that, however, it
>ought to be a spirit of friendly competition.
>       [  .............  ]  And what I suspect is that
>neither our product nor his will be the last word, but that we each will
>advance the cause in the same way that Jespersen did.
>
*       Use of words like "friendly competition" and "product"  are still too
capitalistic for me.  I'm a co-operator from way back, and I see the
capitalist, free-enterprise ethic spreading, like a cancer, from the
economic rationalist ideologues in America.
        Bruce, you've caught their disease.  You are thinking PRODUCT and
COMPETITION.  If we knew what forces, in the world, opposed co-operation
between common citicens of the planet, we'd throw the names of the
potential IALs into a hat and draw one out, to start implementing it
to-morrow.
        The Honest men are losing the plot: we are playing by Marqiss of
Queensbury rules; but those who see the world as a vast market to be
exploited capitalistically, for bottom-line profit, are not.
        There is no way that uncommecial social inventions, like planned
languages, can compete for MARKET SHARE using the same rules as used by
those who come up with such beauties as the International Marketting
Agreement.  The exploiters are the bad guys: after they have ripped the
guts out of planet Earth, they will move on to the Moon and Mars.  But if
we Language Reformers
have any sense, we will know that this is it: we have to make a go of this
planet, or bust.
        There is no time for the wastefulness of market competition: our only hope
for a sane and humane future is through co-operation.  Although it is
assumed by the casual observer that Esperanto, Interlingua, Glosa, Rap Lin
Rie, etc are in competition, we have no resources to waste on competition;
and, while each of us hopes that the project they are working on will prove
to to be the one of global implementation, we need to work together for the
good of mankind, rather than compete, for reasons of ego or gold.
 
>It is competition, but I think not cut-throat competition.
>
*       This is the sickness.  We are in an endeavour where there really is not
any room for the destructiveness of capitalist competion.  Maybe there is
creative competition whereby each offers his best to the whole .. a sort of
competing BETWEEN one another for a common goal, rather than a competing
AGAINST one another to destroy our "opponents."
 
>But I can't help contribute to his project, because it's based on
principles I
>can't accept. And the "industrial spy" comment represents how I feel... being
>in on the discussions that lead to the decisions. I never said that James
>was "gaining an unfair advantage by posting on Auxlang and receiving
comments."
>If anything, it is _I_ who is gaining an unfair advantage, by being able to
>observe those comments, and if I chose to, being able to gear our effort
toward
>satisfying objections people have to James' project.
>
>>Is this really the way we want to set up the relations between the
>>various projects?  I honestly don't want to get involved in anything
>>so sordid.
>
>I don't see anything sordid here. I just think that it makes more sense for
>James to create his language, us to create ours, Marcos to create his, and
>then compete in the intellectual marketplace as finished products  [ .. ]
*     ^^^^^^^........^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
        This is where the sordidness is.  The concepts of "intellectual property",
and worse, the "intellectual marketplace" are serious symptoms of the
'American Disease': anyone, and any idea. can be bought - for a price.
        Everyone, and everything, is negotiable!!!
 
        We are in the final years of a dying culture, and still people are conning
themselves that there is more time for them to develop their thing so it is
better than the rest, and thus will be more profitable.  We are running out
of planet to exploit, and urgently need to find, and agree upon, ways of
stopping the rot before our ecosystem goes into terminal shock.  And, yet,
those on whom we pin our hopes for real, global communication are
squabbling among themselves like children.
 
>>I will say right here and now that I have not the slightest interest in
>>competing with Bruce on Bruce's own terms.  [  ......  ]
>
>If you "have not the slightest interest in competing with Bruce on Bruce's
own
>terms," what _are_ you doing? I thought you were trying to produce a Novial-
>based IAL. This is what we are doing too. (And PLEASE don't talk as if it is
>"Bruce" you are competing with. It is our GROUP.)
*       The outside world will judge us to be a divided, waring group.  It will
not see that this version of Novial is marginally better than that version
of it; nor will it see that this language might be slightly better than
that language, it will just percieve us as a group of people arguing
amongst ourselves, never able to reach a concensus.  They will not consult
us for advice: nor will they expect to see any leadership, on the language
front, coming from this collection of egotistical individuals.
 
        The message is: CO-OPERATION is the only way.
 
Sorry Friends:
 That's it.
        Robin
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ROBIN GASKELL: [log in to unmask]      WEBPAGE: www.zeta.org.au/~rgaskell
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