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AUXLANG Home

AUXLANG Home

AUXLANG  March 1998, Week 5

AUXLANG March 1998, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Auxiliary language (was: James' project)

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:33:48 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (127 lines)

Bruce R. Gilson wrote:
 
> "Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> [kut]
> >
> >This e probably true, & l 90% r e led by English z l most used "international" lin
> >f l foreseeable future.
> >
> >> But I think an auxlang needs to be as productive as a natlang.
> >
> >Here e where j think j see u auxlang u little differently. j see u auxlang z u tool
> >f getting l required message across a l other person(s). j n see u auxlang being
> >able a say everything o every subject. A j, when u language, auxlang or n, goes
> >beyond basic communication needs, then t e going i l direction d u "replacement"
> >lin. &, j n believe l world a any level e ready f k.
 
Here is where I think I see an auxlang a little differently. I see an auxlang az a tool
for getting the required message across to the other person(s). I do not see an auxlang
being able to say everything on every subject. To me, when a language, auxlang or not,
goes beyond basic communication needs, then it is going in the direction of a
"replacement" language and, I do not believe the world at any level is ready for that.
 
>
>
> Sorry, Here you have too much RLR and not enough English for me to follow.
> What are you trying to say?
>
> If I speak only English, and someone else speaks only Hungarian, I need a
> language to communicate. If it's an auxlang, and not English or Hungarian, it
> needs to be possible to say EVERYTHING I can say in English, otherwise it
> doesn't fill the need.
>
> >> One problem I
> >> have seen with Eurolang (which has a number of features I like) is its gross
> >> reduction of words, so that subtlety and nuance does not exist. If I want to
> >> convey subtle distinctions, it appears I cannot in Eurolang, no matter how
> >> proficient I will become. Which means I have to go back to English, and I
> >> still cannot explain the subtleties to, say, a monoglot French speaker who also
> >> has learned Eurolang.
> >
> >Then, e c n u desire a have u "replacement" lin versus u aux lin? U question, n u
> >criticism.
>
> Not a replacement language. I still use English to anyone I can reach in Eng-
> lish. The auxlang is used to people who cannot understand English, or cannot
> understand it as well as they can the auxlang.
 
Yes, but at this time, how many know your auxlang, much less any other? Again, not a
criticism at all, but a question relative to our present situation. Even on this list it
is still difficult to partially communicate with another auxlang. Just think how we
would do on the streets of America, or Japan, etc. as things stand now. Again, when one
can say everything that can be said in an auxlang, with as much finesse as a natlang,
then, right or wrong, I submit that this is a replacement form of language and not an
auxiliary. My stupid example would be this. If I broke my leg I would need a cast and a
crutch, not a complete leg. I know a language is different. But, is there not a
difference between an "auxlang" and a "universal" or "global" language. These last two
words imply to me languages that should be capable of saying everything, but be
universally learnable in much less time than a natlang. Maybe it is just a semantic
problem the way I am looking at things.
 
> [kut]
> >
> >> 2) It should be possible for speakers of any of the source languages to make
> >> all the distinctions that they make in their own language;
> >
> >j e n sure about c. x ALL l distinctions have e made, then e c n going beyond what
> >u auxlang e?
>
> Sorry. Again I can't understand your question. Put it in English, please?
 
Actually, the way I am using RLR now is the shorthand form, so in that sense it is still
English. But, here is the sentence above, "I am not sure about this. If ALL the
directions have to be made, then is this not going beyond what an auxlang is?"
 
> >> 3) It should not require them to make distinctions that, in their own language,
> >> they feel no need to make.
> >
> >j e n sure j understand number 3. Could v expand more o c one?
>
> In Spanish, there is a distinction between "ser" and "estar" -- not made in most
> other languages. If I had to learn basic Spanish, I'd need to learn a lot of
> rules about the use of these, and for speakers of Eng, Ger, or Fr, this is a
> distinction hard to make, because it's not made in those languages.
 
Ok, j see what v mean. Yes, j agree k c should e avoided when possible. Dutton, as did &
do others, tried a eliminate z much d this z possible. "That" being u example. He had 3
words f "that", "k", "cu" and "qu". All 3 being used i l auxlang aspect of RLR, but n
necessary f l person who only learned t f shorthand purposes. But, Dutton was using this
on already established practice to solve potential problems f l non-English RLR
user.[kut]
 
> [kut]
> I hope I can figure out what you're saying, but I can't be sure.
 
You did just fine. With very little patience, v r read t extremely easily with just a
few more posts. It doesn't really talke long. With concentration on the actual alphabet
with meanings, it should take about , oh, a real long time of 1-3 minutes.
 
> There would not be 6,000 auxlngs, but there might be 10, say one for WENSA,
> a pan-African (or pan-sub-Saharan-African), and other such. So this is a
> significant improvement.
 
Certainly u improvement, b who e going a learn 10 more lin? There must e u answer
somewhere i l future, otherwise j doubt k any d w would stay o l list, or keep playing m
languages, other than z u hobby.
 
Mil gra f vi comments, j fes g, [fes = enjoy]
Al l sue,
Bob
 
P.S. Does anyone know what the target audience was/is of these lin?
Esperanto
Ido
Novial
Occidental
Interlingua
Ro
Volapuk
LsF
and any other you care to mention.
 
t e my understanding d Dutton's writings k his first targets were 1. l youth d l world,
2. business transactions among nations, and, 3. not, said but implied, finally u full
blown lin f most needs from business to science to religion. But, the first 2 x followed
would certainly keep t within l bounds d u "simple auxlang" 7 n u "replacement" lin. #3
would, i my mind, push t beyond u simple auxlang.

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