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AUXLANG  March 1998, Week 5

AUXLANG March 1998, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Auxiliary language (was: James' project)

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:35:05 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (103 lines)

Donald J. HARLOW wrote:
 
> Je 07:33 ptm 3/30/98 -0700, Bob PETRY skribis:
>
> [Sorry, I keep writing _Rob_ Petry and then having to edit...]
>
 
I've been called worse. :-)
 
> >Here is where I think I see an auxlang a little differently. I see an
> auxlang az a tool
> >for getting the required message across to the other person(s). I do not
> see an auxlang
> >being able to say everything on every subject. To me, when a language,
> auxlang or not,
> >goes beyond basic communication needs, then it is going in the direction of a
> >"replacement" language and, I do not believe the world at any level is
> ready for that.
> >
> Bob, the sense in which you are discussing language involves something that
> I believe is called "the pathetic fallacy" -- the idea that an object
> somehow function as a human being. "An auxlang being able to say everything
> on every subject ..." Languages say nothing; people do. The question is
> not, how far should the language be able to go, but how far do its users
> want it to go.
 
Ok, then I mean, I do not see the usage of an auxlang being put to covering
everything. My thought, is that if a person is looking for a language, any
language, to do a specific job through using that language, then the person will
study the language that has the vocabulary needed. It certainly is the peson who
accomplishes what is done, but the language is the tool. In reading Loom, & other
references on auxiliary languages, several times it is mentioned by several
"respected" authors that a large vocabulary defeats the overall purpose of an
auxlang. And, I tend to agree with that. However, that does not mean that I am
against ultimately a language being developed with enough vocabulary to say
everything. I just wouldn't personally call it an auxlang, I would call it a
universal lin, or a global lin, or a new complete lin, or a replacement lin, that
is easier to learn. This is only my personal perspective and opinion, and I
certainly am not advocating everyone adopt my view point.
 
> [kut]
>
> An auxlang, whether it is Interlingua, Esperanto, or English, should be
> able to handle whatever tasks its varied assortment of _human_ users place
> on it. As I think I've said before, if you underestimate what sort of tasks
> those will be, your auxlang will either be ignored or its user community
> will make up for your shortcomings, possibly in ways you don't like.
 
Speaking of Esperanto, I have read in a couple of places, quotes that Esperanto
was now considered a "living language". One of the quotes was in a book dealing
with and promoting Esperanto. Thus, by increasing the vocabulary, and reaching a
certain level of usage, some are now beginning to say it is a living language. To
me, that means it is loosing its auxiliary purpose and is taking on the role of a
"natlang". Thus, most of those deciding whether to learn it or not, will make that
decision based on where they plan to travel and spend time, on how many speakers
are using it, etc. The same thing being done with those traveling to places in the
world where other lin are spoken. And, in many cases, then, as time goes on, more
and more people who learn Esperanto will not be doing it for "auxiliary" reasons.
 
Does this make the language overly complicated and therefore unlearnable,
 
> or at least more difficult to learn than we want? Not necessarily. A
> language doesn't need to be complicated in order to be complex; and
> regularity and proper word-formation can keep the memorization units within
> reasonable limits. Also, there are levels of ability; one person may be
> satisfied with what he can do with the original 500+ words in Zamenhof's
> first book -- another may want to memorize everything he can find so that
> he can discuss anything. But let the user decide her limits; don't insist
> that they be forced on her by the language. Users don't like that.
 
I think this somewhat points in the direction Esperanto is going. It started as an
"auxlang" with a basic essential vocabulary, and has now grown toward being a
"living language" and is settling in to the same status as Indonesian, Japanese,
English, only not as big a speaker pool. Once Esperanto left its basic pool of
words it became something else. Again, this is my own opinion based on what I
think I see, and on comments made by others who have published works in this
field. Complication is not the only criterion for an auxlang, it is also ease of
vocabulary learning.
 
So, if I am write, what difference does it make? Well, it seems to me, that any
language developer who hopes to have his or her language adopted by a large block
of "nations" for auxiliary purposes will be defeated by the politics of offering
to those nations a perceived "replacement" language and it just won't be adopted.
I think that is a major "unspoken" reason why the UN, the EE
C and others won't, or haven't totally adopted it. However, When it was an
"auxlang" it was really growing like crazy. Then other factors slowed that down,
along with, I believe, the point I was just making.
 
So, if I am wrong? Nothing will change until we, or someone finally happens on the
right formula, and then, bingo, the world to some degree will adopt that
"auxiliary". All of this is my personal opinion, and is NOT meant to be, nor does
it have any intent to be argumentative.
 
Mil gra,
& al l sue,
Bob
 
>
>
> -- Don HARLOW
> http://www.webcom.com/~donh/
> (English version: http://www.webcom.com/~donh/dona.html)

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