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AUXLANG  April 1998, Week 3

AUXLANG April 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Novi-Sherts (fwd)

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:32:12 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (123 lines)

Kjell Rehnstr=F6m wrote:
 
> [kut]
> It is not necessary so that a linguist is the best language constructor=
=2E
> His task is to study language, see how it works and what languages it i=
s
> related to etc. Arts professors are not always the best painters!
 
Who remembers Jespersen's 5th grade language teacher, or Z's, etc.?
 
> [kut]That's why I think Languages should be used and not only talked ab=
out.
> Even
> when they are on the experimental stage. I think that the great thing w=
ith
> Interlingua when - and in the way - I got in contact with it, was that =
it
> was being used as much as possible. In this way the different usages wo=
uld
> probably amalgamate to a whole. In dividing say Novial into different
> schools before even all of the participants have learnt the language
> everyone is forced to stick to his/her lable.
 
A living language is a "used language", a language talked about is a "dea=
d
language" or an "historical artifact."
 
> As with Occidental and Interlingua, Ido and Esperanto.
>
> According to a publication I have - Ud med spr=E5ket - (it is in Danish=
) the
> Occidentalists in Denmark in all went over to Interlingua. They did so
> because they thought that language was far better than Occidental.
>
> Could one of the reasons have been the fact that the language appeared =
to
> be used in practice? What you did with Interlingua you could probably h=
ave
> done with Occidental as well - with a little bit of change.
 
=46rom the Cosmoglotta numbers of volumes it is apparent that the languag=
e
Occidental was being used, or there could not have been so many authors, =
articles
and issues from 1922-1980's, plus books, etc.
 
> [kut]
>
> From the texts in Occidental that I have been reading it appears that t=
his
> language had a remarcably fine handling of what is called the "grammati=
cal
> words" in Interlingua. Could the language have incorporated that system=
 
> without loosing its readability?
 
In one of the issues I found this comment about Occidental. It is my para=
phrase,
"Look how far Occidental has come, and there is no grammar, no dictionary=
 and no
special vocabulary. Compare that to other languages being used." Another =
quote
went something like this. "There are no artificial words in Occidental, o=
nly
those in natural international use. If it were to be recreated because al=
l the
materials were lost, it would end up being the same again."
 
> Then another thing is important to remember: Interlingua of 1998 is not=
 
> Interlingua of 1951. If you compare the texts in Panorama to those earl=
ier
> texts of Alex. Gode, you will clearly notice a change, a preference for=
 
> more "modern" - sometimes - Occidentalizing forms.
>
> On the other hand the words taken directly from Latin, as it were, are
> understandable to a lot of people. And if not, they know where to look =
if
> they have not got an Interlingua dictionary.
>
> I think that it is a sine qua non that an auxiliary language does have =
such
> a form that it is easy to learn - according to certain criteria, and th=
at
> it can be read by as many as possible at more or less first glance.
>
> So: how would it work if one introduced some more Interlingua into
> occidental, but kept the system of grammatical words? Was that really d=
one
> in  the IALA circular with the different language variants?
>
> My answer to that is _no_.
 
After reading as much as I have in Cosmoglotta and then perusing the arti=
cle
titles I have come to this tentative conclulsion. Occidental died out bec=
ause
after de Wahl's death the "leaders" began to make changes based on percei=
ved
dangers, not real dangers. They changed the name to Interlingue. They tri=
ed to
incorporate changes based on IALA, and Occidents started to slowly drown.=
 If they
had stuck with the winning game they had, kept the original name, and not=
 made
"forced" changes to try to keep up with the "Jones", it would still be vi=
able and
growing. The powers that be tried to hold off "straw dogs" that weren't t=
here.
Here is one of the headlines to show how they were thinking. "Li <<Nov Cu=
rse>> de
Cosmoglotta, Un parol apert a nor letores". Another was, "Interlingua e
Interlingue". Too bad they didn't let Interlingua ride its wave, and Occi=
dental
ride its, but they tried to board a wave they didn't need to, and sank. I=
t was
not the language, it was the people who caused its "demise". IMO.
 
Al l sue,
Bob

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