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AUXLANG  May 1998, Week 1

AUXLANG May 1998, Week 1

Subject:

Progress in Reverse.

From:

Kjell Rehnström <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 3 May 1998 00:07:16 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (146 lines)

>Is it possible to editorialize on occasion on this list. I
>suppose so, since I seem to see posts that are close to that.
What do you mean by that. I don't understand.
 
>Where do we stand?
>Sounds like a simple question.
>In the field of auxlangs one stands for Esp., one for Ido, one
>for Novial, One for RLR, One for IALA, One for Eurolang, One for
>Lsf, etc. And, there we stand. One for Esp., One for Ido, One for
>Novial, One for RLR, One for IALA, One for Eurolang, One for
>LsF., etc.
I have tried to say what I think is positive in any language, including
Interlingua of IALA that I think is the best. I don't accept your
description. It is obvious that you cannot expect anything more when you
have proponents of various languages. Learning and using a language takes
lots of work, and if someone has started using one language it is quite
natural that this person will be very hard to persuade, like the owner of
one car will not accept the argumants in favour of other makes.
 
Snipped
 
>If I throw out a point positive about why RLR actually does work,
>another says, NO IT DOESN'T because I don't like it doing it that
>way.
 
I don't remember me having said something like that. What I could say about
RLR is that I think that there are lots of other ways of communication that
I favour more.
 
>If a Novialist says, Novial does it right here, the other says NO
>IT DOESN'T, by mine DOES it this way, and that is the way I like
>it.
 
When I heard about Novial being reanimated I contacted Valter Ahlstedt whom
I knew had been in contact with Jespersen. I borrowed the book from the
library. I tried to write in Novial. Then I was informed that all verbs had
been changed into infinitives (or present tense - from a Scandinavian point
of view). Was it wrong by me to think that it cannot work, as it is less
recognizable than other languages, like Occidental and Interlingua. I mean,
this is not a fair description of the situation.
 
>And, none of the above ever gets beyond the OPPOSITES. Except,
>Esperanto seems to keep chugging along, good or bad, it keeps
>chugging along, and I don't even personally like it. Never did,
>don't know if I ever will. BUT, so what? I am only one person.
I had it as far as esperanto is concerned some years ago. The problem being
that my time on this earth is limited, and I simply have no time to engage
in a language that I don't see fit to serve me. If it works for others,
this is OK for them.
 
>Reading Occidental today all day long hit me with a thought I
>found very interesting and actually dumbfounding. Especially
>since I had NEVER read any Occidental material [except quotes
>like Pei's books] before two or three weeks ago. And, I haven't
>even found an English/Occidental grammar to read yet!!!! So, I
>don't even "know" the grammar, and I'm reading it.  These writers
>weren't English or American. de Wahl did not invent an
>English/American pseudo language. AND, I can read the thing! And,
>Occidental is criticised for "NOT" working according to the rules
>of ???? except for one major fact, IT WORKS WHEN USED.
 
Who said that. What I have said is that Occidental had an interesting way
of using the set of interrocatives, demonstratives and relatives. I said
that I did not find words lika _flicca_, _strax_ and _til_ be good for an
international language. I understand them as they are Swedish, but you
cannot expect the world to understand a language spoken by the population
big as the one in some suburbs of New York!
 
I can very well understand Bobs experience when he read and read and could
understand everything. That was my feeling when I got a lot of issues of
Revista de Interlingua with more or less the same material as you have in
your Cosmoglottas, Bob. I did not have to read any grammar. It just went
into my head. The grammar and the primer in Interlingua were necessary when
I wanted to write in the language.
 
By the way there was a lot of Occidental in it too, so I have read quite a
bit of Occidental over the years.
 
> So does
>Esp., Ido, Novial, etc. etc. The point is, WHEN USED.
 
Please define! I think that what we perhaps should discuss here is the
different ways to use our different languages.
 
I mean, Esperanto and Ido will work if everybody decide to learn the
languages. I have learnt Esperanto so I understand Ido as well. Now all
others may do their share!
 
>RLR was invented by a "horrible old British fellow" so it
>automatically must be bad, no matter how it works. "It's
>ENGLISH". Except for one thing, IT WORKS WHEN USED! In spite of
>those who think they don't like it.
 
 
>What's the point? I have come to the opinion that all these
>arguments against one language or another are FRUITLESS,
>NONSENSICAL, and downright useless. They are only individual
>opinions, including mine, and have not one whit to do with
>whether the language actually works when used!!!!!
 
In a way they are. To a large extent I could use Interlingua or Occidental
and be happy even if I were the only person knowing them. Because they deal
with linguistical FACTS.
 
>When I use and work with Occidental, it does what it claims, for
>me. I can read and understand it, and it comes from writers whose
>native languages were NOT English! Strange? If it doesn't work,
>how come I can understand it?
 
Because it uses the international vocabulary that you are acquainted with
and you can use the Occidental wordlist when you are stuck. Having seen
similar texts in Interlingua and with a little dictionary you might have
understood it as well, if I did, why should not you?
 
>When I use and work with RLR it does what it claims, for me. I
>can read and understand it when others say it can't won't and
>couldn't work as it is claimed.
Your task will then be to persuade all those you want to communicate with
to learn RLR. If they want to, this is fine.
 
The fine thing with both Interlingua and Occidental - but in different
degree - is that millions of people can understand them, even if they have
not heard of them and even if they don't LIKE them. THIS is what I call an
international language.
 
 
>Believe it or not, the same is true when I spend some time with
>IDO, or NOVIAL, or IALA! This shouldn't be. Why, these languages
>aren't good enough to communicate across international language
>barriers. I do have trouble reading and understanding Esperanto.
>But, with just a little effort, IF I WANTED TO, IT ALSO WORKS
>WHEN USED, even by me.
>
>So, isn't it time to get on with the doing, and using all of them
>if necessary, until one settles out for all of us, or until a
>"combined" product naturally develops from all of these 88%
>similar languages?????????
>
Yes, I'm looking forward to your next posting in Occidental.
 
Kjell [log in to unmask]
Kjell Rehnstroem
Vaenortsgatan 87
S-752 64  UPPSALA
Suedia - Sweden

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