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AUXLANG  June 1998, Week 3

AUXLANG June 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Re# A Prediction.

From:

Robin Gaskell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 20 Jun 1998 19:43:56 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (124 lines)

At 09:53 AM 6/13/98 -0700, Don Harlow wrote:
>At 06:29 AM 6/13/98 -0400, Robin GASKELL skribis:
>>At 03:25 PM 5/31/98 -0700, Don Harlow pa grafo:
>>>Je 11:03 atm 5/31/98 -0700, Bob PETRY skribis:
>>>
>
*       Well, after reading this dialogue, it seems to me to come down to whether
the "mass action", of population pressure and aggressive economic
imperialism, will carry the associated languages into the homes and
marketplaces, or if the "pragmatic, evolutionary" forces of linguistic
reform and the automation of communication will continue the predominance
of the 'newer' national languages, and even usher in a world auxiliary.
 
>>#       Ha!  Well I do laugh: I know a number of educated "Tienamin"
>>exiles in Australia, and you should hear their excuses when I ask them to
>>consider translating from English to Chinese:
>>      [  ..................  ]
>>       although Chinese looks like a "concept
>>language", the bulk of its users use it as a concrete communication
>>medium, not as a poetical one.    [  ....................  ]
>>     I have met two Chinese "telegraph operators"   [  ....  ]
>> committed the dictionary to mind, with a number for each word.
>>     No, mate.  Chinese is NOT going to take over the world!
>>
>Actually it very likely will (in the same sense that "English took over
>the world" in the twentieth century) for two very good reasons:
>
>(1) The Chinese people (most of whom today speak one particular brand of
>the language) make up between a fifth and a quarter of the entire
>population of the planet;
>
*       Chairman Mao saw to that, enforcing children to learn Mandarin: the
largest and most successful experiment in auxiliary language introduction.
 
>(2) The Chinese economy is today the fastest growing in Asia (and not just
>because of the doldrums in which the Japanese, the Koreans and several
>others currently, and temporarily, find themselves).
*        Not being part of GATT, they are likely to avoid the consequences of a
Global financial melt-down.
 
>I can never understand why so many people in this field fail to recognize
>that _the importance of a language has little or nothing to do with the
>qualities of that language_.  [  .....  ]
*       We'll never know if it was 'nature or nurture' that created the
English-speaking superiority.  I think of maize, and all that hybrid vigour
that must have followed all those invasions into Britain.  And then, Sapir
and Whorf could have been right after all: could the 'logicality' of
Anglo-Saxon have given the Poms that leading edge?
 
>>#       "Planedoglot" reminds me of the 'Koine.'  [  ..............  ]
>> around 500BC a trading version of the various dialects of the Hellenic
>>diaspora 'came together' and this was called "The Koine."  [  ...  ]
>>        Maybe the same will happen through the Internet.
>>
>"Planedoglot" was a term I invented not to describe a language but a
>phenomenon which I fully expect to manifest itself sometime in the 21st
>century -- a burst of enthusiasm for new planned languages because of a
>perceived weakness among dominant ethnic languages. The phenomenon will, I
>suspect, be as short lived as its previous manifestation (one human
>lifetime, more or less).
>
*       Interesting.  Do you see this happening, as I imagine it could, in
cyberspace?  And when?  And what might trigger it?
 
>>##      Much more interesting for the world's history, is the question of
>>national languages 'surviving or dying.'
>>    [  ...............  ]  Don imagines that English will go down to
>>Chinese and French.
>
>English, in one form or another (or perhaps one form _and_ another), would
>seem to have a guaranteed future,  [  ...............  ] it's hardly
>impossible (though some would think: unlikely) that 200 years from now the
>primary languages in North America will be Spanish and Chinese, while
>those in Australia will be Hindi and Bengali.
>
*       Much more likely to be Indonesian, if our present government policies
continue: the combination of agression and the grab for living space and
geological resouces is almost unstoppable.  Mass action, again!
 
>(My daughter at Reed College cannot understand why I find the idea of lots
>of signs posted around Portland, Oregon, in Spanish so utterly
>unbelievable.  Spanish was [ .. ] not something you heard on a daily basis
>in the streets around you!)
>
*       Mass action strikes again: something to do with a difference in  family
values between the cultures.
 
>>        I know that "evolution" is a very unpopular and Politically
>>Incorrect concept to use when talking about languages,  [  .....  ]
>> Chinese is a very ancient and primitive language,
>>French [  ......  ]is decidedly hanging onto its primitive structure
>>  [  ..........  ]
>
>Chinese works just fine, in communication and technology. Otherwise, why
>would so many American corporations involved with satellites be scrambling
>to buy launch space on Chinese Long March boosters? (See latest American
>political flap over the president's signing off on permitting certain
>companies to do this...)
>
*       American business will make overtures wherever it thinks there is a spare
dollar to be made.  The corporations will pay people to learn Chinese, or
whatever.  In Australia, Europeans who are fluent in Mandarin, are still
quite rare.
 
 
> [ .. ] Chinese will likely replace English as (at least temporarily) the
>primary language of global intercourse. [  ....  ]
> but keep your eyes on Hindi -- and Spanish and Arabic
>
*       I think you have overlooked  "Planedoglot".  Events in world history ..
globalisation .. New World Order (for good or ill) .. possible revolution
against rabid capitalism (there are rumbellings here - over the MAI) ..
possible "Golden Age" as co-operation becomes the new mode .. crisis of
downwards environmental spiral .. etc, will push for closer co-ordination
of Earthlings, such that the call for a "Terran" language will become
extremely pressing - and any "Worldoglot" will seem better than the
mismatch of mutually incompatable national languages we have inherited.
        BTW I call the "Planedoglt" phenomenon: "World Community" - the situation
where the whole world is one community, because all members are
able to commune together.
 
Til then, we have to put up with Auxlang,
 Robin

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