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AUXLANG  September 1998, Week 5

AUXLANG September 1998, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Polish cz + 4c = esp. ch

From:

Michael Farris <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:41:09 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (54 lines)

Kjell Rehnstrom wrote:
 
> Mike wrote:
> >As for Eo's sound system, it's obvious that Zhof took the sound system of
> >Polish and
> >simplified it somewhat (cz + c' = ch). It's a pity that he didn't know
> >that Polish 'ch'
> >and 'h' were rapidly falling together into a single phoneme (they were
> >distinguished in
> >some dialects in his day) and gave Eo equivalents to both Polish 'ch' = Eo
> >h^ and 'h' =
> >h (very roughly).
>
> Could it be possible that Zamenhof may have been inspired both by the
> Polish, Russian and German sound system. And Lithuanian as well.
 
I think you could safely say he took German and Russian into consideration,
Lithuanian?
 
hmmmm nie bardzo (not especially) First I don't think there were many Lithuanian
speakers around Bialystok and Poles have traditionally kind of looked down on
Lithuanians as junior partners (in a long-ago joint kingdom) I would doubt if
there's much more than a word or two from Lith. in Eo.
 
 
 
> Synchronically and phonetically Lithuanian _c^ia_ = Polish _cia_ = Russian
> _cha_ but historically Polish _cza_ = Russian _cha_.
>
> The Lithuanian influence one would see in _Kachjo_ and perhaps also in
> _chi_ (tie). Note, that the _j_ there has the function of a short i and not
> a modifier of the preceding consonant as the _i_ in Lithuanian.
>
> I think it is quite probable that Zamenhof took his distinction of _hh : h_
> from German e.g. _haben_ and _Nacht_.
 
I think the whole h - h^ thing was partly inspired by German and partly by
Polish orthography (learning when to use ch and h is a big issue for Polish
schoolchildren).
 
I think it was the wors idea of his phonology because so few languages have both
a h and a h^ sound. Among European national languages, only German and Dutch
have both (most Celtic languages too but ...) among the major world languages
only Arabic has both (many languages world wide have _partially_ assimilated h^
from Arabic but it often tends to merge with k, kh (aspirated), or h. But very
clearly, most languages only have one either h (English, Swedish) or h^
(Spanish, Russian, Greek) I'd say the Polish sound is between the two. And of
course, Italian, French and Portuguese have neither.
 
I'm very glad that so many Eists have mostly abandoned h^.
 
Amikel,
Mike Farris

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