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CONLANG  October 1998, Week 3

CONLANG October 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Rap Lin Rie/Occidental, was Re: A PUBLIC

From:

"Robert J. Petry" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 16 Oct 1998 05:42:07 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (96 lines)

"Raymond A. Brown" wrote:

> At 6:02 pm -0700 14/10/98, Robert J. Petry wrote:
> [snip]
>
> [kut]
>
> I'm sorry that I don't think Speedwords is the fine tool Bob considers it
> to be.  It may be because Bob & I seem to have come to Speedwords for
> different reasons.  I came because it claimed to be an IAL & it seemed a
> pretty unusual IAL.  I personally found it unsatisfactory as such & all my
> criticism have been regarding that aspect of Speedwords.

Well, here we will have to agree to a friendly disagreement. I find it to be an
exceptional IAL tool. If I didn't I would have dropped it years ago.

> The fact that Bob is actively promoting Occidental makes little sense to me
> if he does consider Speedwords as a satisfactory IAL in its own right.
> Therefore we might even agree to some extent here.

Speedwords is not an at sight readable IAL. It has to be learned. And, even though
that is easy, how does one teach this to a German or Spanish or French or other
language speaker? Dutton wanted to promote Speedwords to the world and to
_translate_ it into multiple other European languages. Money stopped him. He could
not afford to publish that many works on his own. Ergo, Occidental. It can be used
to teach Speedwords to at least a half-dozen other language groups with one
translation. And, I am working on that slowly but surely right now. For instance:

l = li
u = un
ri = scrir
le = lettre
pri(s) = custar
kut = cupar
lin = lingue
w = noi
etc, etc.

And, it can be used in the same way Dutton used to teach it. By mixing Speedwords
with English. One can mix it with Occidetal. For example:

"W ha u grand international congress i l cite'. L nationes d Europa e representat
per eminent cultural ers. L centre d l congress e i l palade d l parlament.
Elegant modern automobiles sta be l portas & sur l stradas & plazzas. L faciades e
decorat m l national flags. L flags d l nordic landes ha l cruz z symbol." Etc.
until one can develop to using complete Speedwords for rapid writing of
Occidental, or Spanish, etc. etc. Thus, since a Spaniard can read Occidental as
well as a Frenchman or German, etc. it becomes a very easy way, in my mind, to
teach Speedwords to the areas of the world Dutton wanted to reach. And, Occidental
is a great way to do it since it has a great deal of "at sight" readability. I am
finding this works great with some sample tests I have begun to do with folks
around Tucson.

So, basically, I see the two as a "two-edged" sword for what I have in mind. And,
I love the response I am getting with it here.

> But - and I think it's an important 'but' - it seems to me that Bob was
> principally attracted by Speedwords claim to be a rapid writing system or
> alphabetic shorthand.  Indeed both his nickname for the language -
> Raplinrie - and his espousal of Occidental as his preferred IAL seem to me
> to corroborate this.

I was attracted to it because I was studying Spanish in high school at the time,
in England, and I loved the Spanish classes, and that inspired me to want to learn
other languages. I did not know about IAL's until I found Speedwords and Esperanto
on the same day and bought both books along with Hugo's German, and French at or
about the same time.

The nickname came about because the word Speedwords was not getting a public
respose when I mentioned "Speedwords". So, I came up with Rapid _Language_
Shorthand, or Rap Lin Rie. I found when I mentioned "Rap Lin Rie" the response was
one of curiosity and interest. I attribute that change in name partially to the
growth I am having. Rapp Linn Reeyeh as I say it, rolls off the tongue better.
And, well... it's working fine so far.

My preferred IAL is Rap Lin Rie and Occidental as a two-pronged language tool for
the world.

> Now the shorthand aspect was not one that principally interested me. If Bob
> & others want to use Speedwords/Raplinrie for this purpose and they find it
> works, I have no problem with that.  All my observations about Speedwords
> have been from liguistic point of view, particularly with regard to the IAL
> question.

I certainly respect this point of view. But, I admit, I have a problem with it.
However, I guess I shouldn't explain why, since I don't want to go from one frying
pan into another one.

> I'm NOT trying to be contentious, but to make sense of our different
> positions which, hopefully, we can respect.

Neither am I. And, I certainly do respect your position.

Al l sue,
Bob, x+

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