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CONLANG  October 1998, Week 3

CONLANG October 1998, Week 3

Subject:

Re: GROUPLANG: cases (was: noun and verb roots)

From:

"Mathias M. Lassailly" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:08:30 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (115 lines)

Pablo wrote :
> I'll mention all the cases we have been dealing with so far,
> and you tell us what you call them:
>
Depends whether you are in a AP, NA or EA system so I pick our 'mixed' system :

> Case 1:
> THE DOG bit me
> (agent)

erg/abs-dog pat-me bite
>
> Case 2:
> The dog bit ME
> (patient)

abs-dog pat-me bite
erg-dog pat/abs-me bite
depending whether root 'bite' is result or state.
>
> Case 3:
> HE sees us
> (undergoer?)

abs-he pat-we see
abs-he age-we image
>
> Case 4:
> The dog BIT me
> (predicate)

predicate is not a case in ergative or nominative systems, only in agent/patient system.
>
> Case 5:
> THE RED dog bit me
> (determinant) (also serves as genitive/possessive)

You need de-compose into determinant, relative and case. Determination lies on 'dog', not on 'red'.
Relative integrates the predicate 'to be red' into 'dog' :
dog is red > 'dog's redness' or 'a red dog'
abs/att-dog red = the dog is red
dog mu-red-abs/att-o = a red dog
dog-determinant mu-red-abs/att-o = the red dog
abs-dog bite = the dog bites
fraro mu-kjak-abs-o = a biting dog
>
> Case 6:
> A RED dog bit me
> (modifier) (also serves as genitive)
>
see above
'genitive' is an absolute attributive case

> Now, there are some other possibilities:
>
> Case 7:
> HE runs.
> (factitive?) -> this could be merged with agent.
abs-he run

> Case 8:
> The dog is red
> (attributive?)
att/abs-dog red

> Case 9:
> A dog is an animal
> (equative?)
>
yes (classifying equative)
but you could use agentive ('age') by default :
age-dog animal = the dog behaves like animal

> These two could be shown by making the dog the theme.
> --> dog, pred-red  "The dog, it is red"
>     dog, pred-animal  "The dog, it's an animal"
>
dog, (att-it) pred-red
dog, (age-it) pred-animal

> The lack of case inflection and the pause would mark
> the theme; you can't possibly misinterpret something like
> "The dog was reddened" (which would be [patient-dog pred-red]).
>
> I mean, you could, but context would tell you it's not probable.
>
>  dog, caus-I pred-red
>
> would probably mean "I made the dog red".

dog, erg-me (att-it) pred-red(-att-u)
>
> What I'm trying to do here is to show you that there's
> a way to reduce the complexity of the case system by merging
> some related functions into a single case, and letting word
> order and context do the rest.
That's precisely what I think.
 I find the 10-case system very
> interesting but too difficult to use... I don't know if the
> rest of us feel the same.

Well, you always surprise me : I can feel you're the only one who is so brave as to have thought anyone may want 10 cases (except for me :-)
>
>
> --Pablo Flores
>
>
Mathias


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